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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

I've talked about this before, so I won't repeat myself and will quote myself from another thread:

Nvidia lives up to this strategy with what we understand Drake to be in a few key ways. DLSS is very much in line with Yokoi's "lateral thinking", using proven and matured AI/neural network tech (even by 2019 standards) in a lateral way to further visual performance by reducing workload to achieve a 4K image. And there's frankly nothing cutting-edge about Tensor cores, they're basically an ASIC (application-specific integrated circuit) for exclusively solving tensor math equations that happens to be integrated directly into a GPU rather than being its own discrete chip, so as to better pass calculations back and forth. It's all well-understood pre-existing tech used in an incredibly novel way that (under normal circumstances anyways) wouldn't cost Nintendo much more than they likely spent for Erista back in 2017.
If I wasn't clear I also lament that folks misinterpret Yokoi's philosophy as using 'outdated' tech, so I used the alternative 'seasoned' translation instead. I know DLSS itself is based on years of neural network tech but would its specific implementation of AI upscaling for games in 2019 not have been considered cutting-edge? I agree with the idea of DLSS itself being lateral thinking, but I was referring specifically to Nintendo's decisions, and not Nvidia's. Am I wrong to think that Nintendo deciding to use Nvidia's implementation of DLSS in 2019 for their next gaming console is them choosing a cutting-edge technology?
 
Monolith Soft developed their own in house upscaler that can match many industry leading ones. People need to stop with Nintendo can’t use cutting edge tech or they don’t know what cutting edge is. They will use what they see fit.

What I’m trying to get at is that people seem to think Nvidia introduces Nintendo to DLSS as if they don’t have engineers knowing about upscaling tech before hand (like a younger person introducing the latest smart phones to their grandparents or whatever). The very idea of them being old fashioned not knowing about tech seems so outdated.
 
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If I wasn't clear I also lament that folks misinterpret Yokoi's philosophy as using 'outdated' tech, so I used the alternative 'seasoned' translation instead. I know DLSS itself is based on years of neural network tech but would its specific implementation of AI upscaling for games in 2019 not have been considered cutting-edge? I agree with the idea of DLSS itself being lateral thinking, but I was referring specifically to Nintendo's decisions, and not Nvidia's. Am I wrong to think that Nintendo deciding to use Nvidia's implementation of DLSS in 2019 for their next gaming console is them choosing a cutting-edge technology?
It would I guess depend on what you consider the technology rather than the application/implementation of said technology.
AI/neural network stuff is old hat for I'd guess half of Nintendo's current workforce and using it for upscaling isn't terribly new either. I believe that is the technology itself, the implementation or "lateral thinking" is using a dedicated tensor math accelerator (which is itself far more novel than new) to apply those understood technologies to frame generation in a power-efficient way, the "missing piece" to make such a thing achievable in a consumer electronic device.
 
The latest from the buyer uncle whose tweets I share a few times in the past:

zExR78J.png

He liked a tweet that replied to him which I also find interesting. In google translate the user's reply reads "In the current situation, there is a possibility that there would have been a more dangerous shortage if the Pro was released."
 
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It would I guess depend on what you consider the technology rather than the application/implementation of said technology.
AI/neural network stuff is old hat for I'd guess half of Nintendo's current workforce and using it for upscaling isn't terribly new either. I believe that is the technology itself, the implementation or "lateral thinking" is using a dedicated tensor math accelerator (which is itself far more novel than new) to apply those understood technologies to frame generation in a power-efficient way, the "missing piece" to make such a thing achievable in a consumer electronic device.
Fair enough. My perspective of "new" was based on how recently it feels AI acceleration has started being used for real-time upscaling of games specifically, even though the underlying tech and its use in image/video/texture upscaling has been around. Admittingly I should read up on it more. Thank you for elaborating.
 
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I have my disappointments knowing that we could have had almost 2 years of Switch Pro content and Zelda in 4K next year but plans were scrapped but I don't feel we should be attacking Nate or other insiders. It's not Nate's fault that the Switch Pro was canceled. Nintendo made the call. Maybe it was Covid-19 or maybe it was something else but they made the call. Not Nate. I feel Nate has been about as honest and open as he can working with only bits and pieces of information which probably made it very hard for him to provide a clear answer to every question we asked on the daily.

So I'll thank Nate for his work, I hope he doesn't leave the forums and that cooler heads prevail as there is still a lot of people here who value his contributions both as an insider and as a human being enjoying videogames and technology like the rest of us. I'll respect his decision should he decide to leave and will continue to support his podcast. I only hope Nate understands that people get upset at bad news and that people usually come around after awhile and that while there is a lot of negativity and disappointment, there is also a lot of people who enjoy the conversation and genuinely care. You can't please everyone but there are a LOT more people here who like and appreciate Nate then those that may not. Something to remember Nate if you read this and man go have an awesome New Years, take a break, bust open your favorite beverage of choice and just enjoy yourself and be with your family. Videogames will be here after the holidays. :)
 
Anyways how do we think Nintendo will reveal and promote this console? Because this time, it's going to have exclusive games and features. Here's some scenarios I see playing out:

  • Switch style: Teaser trailer dropped with little or no heads up, ala OG Switch. Similar in style to all the other models (~2-3 min, people using it in diff situations, teases of upcoming games). Nintendo tweets to expect more news at a later separate Switch 2 presentation (late March, for example)
  • 3DS XL style: After the general Direct, open a special Direct that starts off with announcing the Switch 2
  • new 3DS style: revealed towards the end of a general Direct, going over "the future of Nintendo Switch", "newest member of the Switch family", "faster processing power", features, hardware, software..."Oh, and it happens to launch the same day as TotK!" and "with a special themed Zelda edition!".
  • A sort of mish mash of the above: A shadow tweet says to "Tune in tomorrow/later this week to hear about the future of Nintendo Switch" and then it's one massive, near 1-hr long presentation, focused exclusively on Switch 2. Basically if you combined the Switch Oct 2016 teaser and the Jan 2017 Presentation.
I'm leaning towards new 3DS style so they basically surprise all the viewers in the February general Direct and it would kind of be like the old E3 style. But I can see them also doing something late March (AFTER the Feb Direct) that could go two ways. Switch style with a tease and full reveal later OR 3DS XL style with another "general" Direct or presentation later exclusively focused on Switch 2.

How does everyone else think they'll reveal and market this device?
 
  • A sort of mish mash of the above: A shadow tweet says to "Tune in tomorrow/later this week to hear about the future of Nintendo Switch" and then it's one massive, near 1-hr long presentation, focused exclusively on Switch 2. Basically if you combined the Switch Oct 2016 teaser and the Jan 2017 Presentation.
I think this one is more likely to happen than the others, bigger than the OLED/Lite reveals but a bit smaller than the original Switch reveal.
 
new 3DS style: revealed towards the end of a general Direct, going over "the future of Nintendo Switch", "newest member of the Switch family", "faster processing power", features, hardware, software..."Oh, and it happens to launch the same day as TotK!" and "with a special themed Zelda edition!".
It'd be around the first third of the way through if we're going by the actual initial reveal New 3DS style; NoA's incredibly late reveal and launch was extremely weird. No idea how the launch ended up so splintered and delayed across regions.




Or hell, you could go for what they did down here in Australia; a whole Direct dedicated to the hardware announcement.

 
I don't think there will be a teaser trailer. I think it will have its own presentation.

I've heard several times that some people kinda expect Switch to adopt an iPhone-style method of succession where each Switch maintains backward compatibility, and then eventually the older ones slowly lose support with newer and more demanding games. I'm really curious if this would be successful in practice. It seems like a daunting task to communicate to an audience that is so used to traditional generations when support for a console would be ending.
 
I've heard several times that some people kinda expect Switch to adopt an iPhone-style method of succession where each Switch maintains backward compatibility, and then eventually the older ones slowly lose support with newer and more demanding games. I'm really curious if this would be successful in practice. It seems like a daunting task to communicate to an audience that is so used to traditional generations when support for a console would be ending.
People expect the iPhone style of succession because Iwata himself said he wanted to adopt it while discussing how drastically Nintendo's generations have tended to change in the past. Of course Nintendo can choose now whether or not to follow that, but that's where people's confidence in that idea come from.

And I'd agree it might sound like a daunting task, if we hadn't just had the PS and XB spend the past couple years in a cross-generation phase. I know it's probably not what they planned initially (Sony at least, Microsoft seems to want to be more flexible), but it's the way things ended up, and I think people would have an easier time recognizing and dealing with consoles working that way these days.

Bowser Fury exists just to sell 3d world again to people who played it on Wii U.
When you put it that way I'm kinda embarrassed that it worked on me πŸ˜…
 
I have my disappointments knowing that we could have had almost 2 years of Switch Pro content and Zelda in 4K next year but plans were scrapped but I don't feel we should be attacking Nate or other insiders. It's not Nate's fault that the Switch Pro was canceled. Nintendo made the call. Maybe it was Covid-19 or maybe it was something else but they made the call. Not Nate. I feel Nate has been about as honest and open as he can working with only bits and pieces of information which probably made it very hard for him to provide a clear answer to every question we asked on the daily.

So I'll thank Nate for his work, I hope he doesn't leave the forums and that cooler heads prevail as there is still a lot of people here who value his contributions both as an insider and as a human being enjoying videogames and technology like the rest of us. I'll respect his decision should he decide to leave and will continue to support his podcast. I only hope Nate understands that people get upset at bad news and that people usually come around after awhile and that while there is a lot of negativity and disappointment, there is also a lot of people who enjoy the conversation and genuinely care. You can't please everyone but there are a LOT more people here who like and appreciate Nate then those that may not. Something to remember Nate if you read this and man go have an awesome New Years, take a break, bust open your favorite beverage of choice and just enjoy yourself and be with your family. Videogames will be here after the holidays. :)
If it is legitimate to compliment an insider when his prediction comes true, it is equally legitimate to point out when he is wrong.
Charges and honors.
Whistles and applause.
It's part of the "job".

On this matter Nate's information has turned out to be wrong several times, that's a fact. And he himself now appears clearly confused on this topic (in my opinion he wanted to hook up to the DF podcast not understanding that there was talk of a Pro version from some time ago, while the Nvidia leak shows us what will arrive in the near future.. And he mixed the 2 things as happened before with the OLED). Nate shouldn't be insulted, obviously, he doesn't deserve it. But if he were to take offense at the criticisms received, I think the problem is not who he criticizes.
 
It'd be around the first third of the way through if we're going by the actual initial reveal New 3DS style; NoA's incredibly late reveal and launch was extremely weird. No idea how the launch ended up so splintered and delayed across regions.




Or hell, you could go for what they did down here in Australia; a whole Direct dedicated to the hardware announcement.


I know the n3DS launch was in 2015, but both the Directs were initially marketed as general (3DS Direrct in Japan). I think NCL really wanted to get the system out to launch with MH4U, while NoA thought MM3D would have been a better launch title. Also the fact that they skipped the regular n3DS and only had the XL model in the beginning for NA. We were still getting quite a lot of splintered releases at this point in Nintendo's schedule.
 
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The latest from the buyer uncle whose tweets I share a few times in the past:

zExR78J.png
I’m guessing the game that was supposed to be announced with it was Metroid Dread β€” assuming the OLED was meant to be the Switch Pro. Don’t think it would’ve gained a lot on the performance side of things given how well it ran on OG switch tho
 
I wonder if that game was Bowser's Fury... it's an odd game to exist, built from 3D World, Open world, but short for a Mario game... like it's production was stopped before it got too big...
Given a Switch "Pro" could have only realistically launched 2020-2021...I wanna say MH Rise could have been another option, given MH4U launched with the n3DS in Japan, NA, and EU.
 
I’m guessing the game that was supposed to be announced with it was Metroid Dread β€” assuming the OLED was meant to be the Switch Pro. Don’t think it would’ve gained a lot on the performance side of things given how well it ran on OG switch tho
I always had a tinfoil hat suspicion LA was made with higher performance profiles in mind.

It was so weird for a first party game to launch like that, 2d Zelda no less.
 
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It'd be around the first third of the way through if we're going by the actual initial reveal New 3DS style; NoA's incredibly late reveal and launch was extremely weird. No idea how the launch ended up so splintered and delayed across regions.




Or hell, you could go for what they did down here in Australia; a whole Direct dedicated to the hardware announcement.


Oh that’s simple, NOA doesn’t like us πŸ’€
 
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Bowser Fury exists just to sell 3d world again to people who played it on Wii U.
They didn't do that with any other Wii U game. I seriously doubt they went out to create a game like bowser's fury to sell people Mario 3D World.
I always had a tinfoil hat suspicion LA was made with higher performance problems in mind.

It was so weird for a first party game to launch like that, 2d Zelda no less.
It's not even a rumor that Mariko was suppose to launch with higher clocks, they still exist in the firmware. it's a ~66% performance increase.
 
Why though? Nintendo usually likes to offer older hardware as a cheap entry point into their ecosystem, and several things point to Drake being noticeably more expensive than previous consoles. If you need to do all of the above just to make sure consumers don't get confused about what they're buying, then your product name is not good. You can sidestep most of these issues by simply calling it something else.

The kicker is that the New 3DS product line wasn't even all that successful in the first place. All the 'New' revisions combined for 18 M or so, which is very low compared to other Nintendo handheld revisions. Why bother bringing it back?


Does "New Nintendo Switch games" refer to new OG Switch games or Drake games? Taking this further, how would you search for new Drake games? "New New Nintendo Switch games"? What about "New Nintendo Switch price"?

You can see how confusing very simple phrases can get with the 'New' branding. Which is also why virtually no one uses it in the consumer electronics space.


The release cadence has nothing to do with it. 'The New iPad' didn't last more than a year because the branding was shit. Even "silent" revisions (year, xth generation) are better from a branding standpoint.
You're right.
 
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Nintendo Switch Advance sounds cooler anyways.



After recent news I'm on the verge of selling my 2019 switch, getting an OLED, soldering a hwfly modchip and overclocking the CPU, GPU and memory enough to play my 'problematic' games (eg. SMT V) at a constant frame rate with better graphics.
 
Nintendo Switch Advance sounds cooler anyways.



After recent news I'm on the verge of selling my 2019 switch, getting an OLED, soldering a hwfly modchip and overclocking the CPU, GPU and memory enough to play my 'problematic' games (eg. SMT V) at a constant frame rate with better graphics
What do you mean by better graphics? Do you just mean it running at a higher resolution?
 
What do you mean by better graphics? Do you just mean it running at a higher resolution?

Depending on the game there are mods to adjust res, 60 fps, motion blur, anti aliasing, sharpness, level of detail, etc. You can find most of these on GBATemp.
 
What do you mean by better graphics? Do you just mean it running at a higher resolution?
Some mods allow you to disable dynamic resolution, essentially running at higher resolutions in certain places in-game where it would normally drop down really low. Others allow you to set a higher fixed resolution.
These generally expect you to run the switch GPU and possibly even memory at a higher clock speed.
There's also FPS mods which you can use to set an arbitrary FPS target.
IIRC, some mods are loaded as DLC and others are cheats, loaded through a bringup side menu (like the home side menu). Overclocking is done the same way.

Here's a comparison I posted ITT a long while ago:
 
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I appreciate the words of support here & elsewhere in the thread/forum by some folks.

The attacks of being called a scammer (I've scammed people of what? Their time?) or a clout chaser have grown tired. The few dollars a month the podcast brings is far from a "business". It's a side project for fun & has no impact on my day to day life. I have never sought credit or attention with the information I've shared. A year ago, I was called a liar over Fire Emblem Engage because it wasn't in the first Direct of 2022. Then the game was announced and confirmed the details I shared months prior to any leak surfacing. I remained labeled a liar.

With that being said: in the closing days of 2022, I'm going to reevaluate my time & participation on this site. Attempting to answer questions and partaking in the community is becoming an unpleasant affair &, frankly, one I can do without.
It would be very sad if you stopped participating, being a veteran user and a respected member, because of a few who do not contribute anything and only look for bad vibes.

We have to have a bit of head, saying a leak does not imply that its announcement is immediate, there is the example you have given of Fire Emblem, or the case of Batman Arkham Collection, from the leak to the announcement it can take a long time. We have to be patient.
 
I appreciate the words of support here & elsewhere in the thread/forum by some folks.

The attacks of being called a scammer (I've scammed people of what? Their time?) or a clout chaser have grown tired. The few dollars a month the podcast brings is far from a "business". It's a side project for fun & has no impact on my day to day life. I have never sought credit or attention with the information I've shared. A year ago, I was called a liar over Fire Emblem Engage because it wasn't in the first Direct of 2022. Then the game was announced and confirmed the details I shared months prior to any leak surfacing. I remained labeled a liar.

With that being said: in the closing days of 2022, I'm going to reevaluate my time & participation on this site. Attempting to answer questions and partaking in the community is becoming an unpleasant affair &, frankly, one I can do without.
Obviously everyone is free to make their own choices, but in my opinion it makes little sense to go to a place only if you are acclaimed and think about leaving when there are criticisms. If you share information, and therefore dress like an insider, you must, in my opinion, accept the role at 360Β°.
Charges and honors.
Boos and applause.

Otherwise you look a bit like touchy immatures. There's no need to list the times you gave information that then came true. We know that and we all thank you for it. You've been wrong sometimes. It can happen. Accept the criticism for these mistakes and move on. I would do so.
 
Obviously everyone is free to make their own choices, but in my opinion it makes little sense to go to a place only if you are acclaimed and think about leaving when there are criticisms. If you share information, and therefore dress like an insider, you must, in my opinion, accept the role at 360Β°.
Charges and honors.
Boos and applause.

Otherwise you look a bit like touchy immatures. There's no need to list the times you gave information that then came true. We know that and we all thank you for it. You've been wrong sometimes. It can happen. Accept the criticism for these mistakes and move on. I would do so.

Nate doesn’t have to ’accept criticism’ every time something he says will happen doesn’t happen or whenever it doesn’t happen when he originally expected it to.

He doesn’t work for Nintendo, he hears things from sources and these sources might not always be at Nintendo either. He relays some of what he’s hearing at the time. It’s up to you to decide how to take that information as it should be obvious that these things are fluid, especially with a company like Nintendo which isn’t scared to sit on games or hardware until they’re completely satisfied with their scheduling.
 
I appreciate the words of support here & elsewhere in the thread/forum by some folks.

The attacks of being called a scammer (I've scammed people of what? Their time?) or a clout chaser have grown tired. The few dollars a month the podcast brings is far from a "business". It's a side project for fun & has no impact on my day to day life. I have never sought credit or attention with the information I've shared. A year ago, I was called a liar over Fire Emblem Engage because it wasn't in the first Direct of 2022. Then the game was announced and confirmed the details I shared months prior to any leak surfacing. I remained labeled a liar.

With that being said: in the closing days of 2022, I'm going to reevaluate my time & participation on this site. Attempting to answer questions and partaking in the community is becoming an unpleasant affair &, frankly, one I can do without.
Was it more than one person that called you a scammer? Just brush it off. Its far from the majority opinion that you are a liar or a scammer.

The confusion that arose from the notion that there has been more than one DLSS/RT chip in development for Nintendo however, when there is no evidence of a second chip anywhere in the Nvidia leak you just got to deal with. I suspect you dont even have all the facts to explain that one.
 
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Part of the rumor cycle is that it always ends in a fight between Nate fans and Nate haters. Which is stupid. Of course insulting him is a no go, whatever the outcome of his leaks and rumors is. At the same time it's his decision to share information in a very specific way and when he is right he deserves praise and when he is not he deserves questions and criticism. Not hate. Same with Mochi.

It's also a very mundane discussion that doesn't change what we know and what's happening. Let's see what his detailed take on the situation will be and in due time we will learn from Nintendo what they do, which in the end is the only thing that really matters. Everything else is just entertainment for us in the interim.
 
The reason is that Nate feels 100% confident about his information at the time, and whatever new information he might have, he doesn't have enough sources to confirm it. If Nate had new, journalistically confirmable info, he'd publish it. Why wouldn't he?

When the NVN2 leak confirmed basically everything Nate had reported, did he do a podcast on it? No. Why? On March 6th


Later, he talked about a possible podcast on the leak but only if he had new info. April 2



Sounds kinda similar to everything he's said since. Has Nate heard anything since? Yeah. In April. April 17


"I've heard more info, possibly related to production, but I can't confirm it, and I refuse to talk about it unless I'm 100% on everything because I don't want the drama, or undermine my journalistic standards for reactionary news. I stand by my previous reporting. Nothing I am saying is a hint."

This has been Nate's line since March. Every attempt by Nate to speak honestly and clearly gets hyperparsed into oblivion. Here is Nate saying the same thing in April...


In May...

In June...


In June again...

And here he is in December, saying that what he's saying now is exactly the same as what he was saying then...

And that there are no hints in his replied...


And that whatever he's tracking down is currently unconfirmed, and likely related to what he was hunting down before, and not radical new info...
You spent so much time answering to the one person that was just straight up honest. Jumpforce said no 4K model next year, you try to go against him and 19 people β€œyeah” this but he was right and he was honest. See why people don’t enjoy it here.
 
Was it more than one person that called you a scammer? Just brush it off. Its far from the majority opinion that you are a liar or a scammer.

The confusion that arose from the notion that there has been more than one DLSS/RT chip in development for Nintendo however, when there is no evidence of a second chip anywhere in the Nvidia leak you just got to deal with. I suspect you dont even have all the facts to explain that one.
The obvious answer is that T239 is both chips. It likely was 8nm (with power draw problems) around the time Brainchild talked about the chip having power issues... That was Spring last year (so before that, we are talking a midgen refresh probably being canceled at the end of 2020. Then the T239 chip shrunk, giving us the DLSS test results sometime after June 2021 that LiC posted in here last week. We know engineering samples were in the wild in April 2022, that gives them plenty of time to cancel production on 8nm, redesign it for 5nm and have it launch in 1H 2023. Remember Zelda was delayed at the end of March 2022 (around the time engineering samples for T239 exist) to May 2023, that is probably because Drake was finally free of power issues. We know as of August 2022, that T239 is ready for full production, and thus all components for a next generation Switch is ready for production, lining up nicely for a 1H launch of Switch "2".

This is just the possible timeline of what happened, I think this makes perfect sense thanks to the OLED model, which Nintendo was already on the hook for these components. So if DF is correct about a midgen refresh in the past being canceled, I think it's clear why Switch "Pro" has hung around every year in the rumor mill.

October 2016, before the official reveal, that foxconn leak about the higher clocks and also a chip twice as big as TX1, and being confirmed by the content of the post like shape of the heat sink and it's size, the weight of the device, joycons, the naming of SL and SR buttons on the side of the joycons that slide into the rail system, literally a dozen other pieces of information that all checked out, and some reporting about Nintendo possibly moving to Pascal over Maxwell... Led to Switch pro rumors in 2016 before Switch even released.

In 2019, Nintendo overclocked Mariko to 1267MHz on the GPU, a higher CPU clock and LPDDR4X ram, giving about a 2/3rds performance jump, but ultimately retained Switch clocks, likely because of Switch's success and simplifying development. These clocks still exist in firmware.

in 2020 we get reports about Nintendo asking developers to prepare 4K versions of Switch games.

in 2021, we get brainchild's info, and news about a more powerful switch, also Switch OLED model launches with all new hardware, tons of changes, except to the main SoC. Why? I mean some of these components are just more expensive for no reason.

Nvidia hack on March 1st 2022 confirms T239, NVN2. End of March 2022, Zelda is delayed to May 2023, outside of the holiday season. April 2022 engineer samples for T239 exist. August 2022, T239 goes into production. November 2022 Zelda has gone gold, yet we aren't playing it.

That isn't even the entire history here, but everything is ready for a Switch "2" to be produced and released in the first half of next year, Zelda could have been shipped this year IMO, delaying it for what reason is hard to tell, it's not like Nintendo doesn't have other games close for release that could fill the first half of next year.

Finally, just a side note, some people think there is no time to reveal new hardware before Zelda, but Switch, which was an entirely new concept only had 4 and a half months between the October 20th 2016 reveal video and March 3rd 2017 launch. The Switch presentation was Jan 13th 2017, less than 2 months before the device went on sale. We are 5 and a half months before release of Zelda. There is time to reveal a Switch "2" to launch alongside of it.
 
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Anyways how do we think Nintendo will reveal and promote this console? Because this time, it's going to have exclusive games and features. Here's some scenarios I see playing out:

  • Switch style: Teaser trailer dropped with little or no heads up, ala OG Switch. Similar in style to all the other models (~2-3 min, people using it in diff situations, teases of upcoming games). Nintendo tweets to expect more news at a later separate Switch 2 presentation (late March, for example)
  • 3DS XL style: After the general Direct, open a special Direct that starts off with announcing the Switch 2
  • new 3DS style: revealed towards the end of a general Direct, going over "the future of Nintendo Switch", "newest member of the Switch family", "faster processing power", features, hardware, software..."Oh, and it happens to launch the same day as TotK!" and "with a special themed Zelda edition!".
  • A sort of mish mash of the above: A shadow tweet says to "Tune in tomorrow/later this week to hear about the future of Nintendo Switch" and then it's one massive, near 1-hr long presentation, focused exclusively on Switch 2. Basically if you combined the Switch Oct 2016 teaser and the Jan 2017 Presentation.
I'm leaning towards new 3DS style so they basically surprise all the viewers in the February general Direct and it would kind of be like the old E3 style. But I can see them also doing something late March (AFTER the Feb Direct) that could go two ways. Switch style with a tease and full reveal later OR 3DS XL style with another "general" Direct or presentation later exclusively focused on Switch 2.

How does everyone else think they'll reveal and market this device?
I think they’ll drop a tweet (assuming we all still use twitter) that says to tune in to a special presentation that will reveal the future of Nintendo. The presentation itself will probably be like a prerecorded, non stage version of the Switch stage event, or just a Direct focussed on the system and software for it.
 
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Obviously everyone is free to make their own choices, but in my opinion it makes little sense to go to a place only if you are acclaimed and think about leaving when there are criticisms. If you share information, and therefore dress like an insider, you must, in my opinion, accept the role at 360Β°.
Charges and honors.
Boos and applause.

Otherwise you look a bit like touchy immatures. There's no need to list the times you gave information that then came true. We know that and we all thank you for it. You've been wrong sometimes. It can happen. Accept the criticism for these mistakes and move on. I would do so.
I mean calling somebody a scammer is hardly good criticism.

Do you like not expect him to defend himself against silly accusations like any other human being? Lol
 
I mean calling somebody a scammer is hardly good criticism.

Do you like not expect him to defend himself against silly accusations like any other human being? Lol
We are in a forum, insulting someone is forbidden, and there are moderators for this.
It's not a situation that only concerns Nate or the insiders... But all users.
Of course I was talking about motivated and polite criticism.
 
The obvious answer is that T239 is both chips. It likely was 8nm (with power draw problems) around the time Brainchild talked about the chip having power issues... That was Spring last year (so before that, we are talking a midgen refresh probably being canceled at the end of 2020. Then the T239 chip shrunk, giving us the DLSS test results sometime after June 2021 that LiC posted in here last week. We know engineering samples were in the wild in April 2022, that gives them plenty of time to cancel production on 8nm, redesign it for 5nm and have it launch in 1H 2023. Remember Zelda was delayed at the end of March 2022 (around the time engineering samples for T239 exist) to May 2023, that is probably because Drake was finally free of power issues. We know as of August 2022, that T239 is ready for full production, and thus all components for a next generation Switch is ready for production, lining up nicely for a 1H launch of Switch "2".

This is just the possible timeline of what happened, I think this makes perfect sense thanks to the OLED model, which Nintendo was already on the hook for these components. So if DF is correct about a midgen refresh in the past being canceled, I think it's clear why Switch "Pro" has hung around every year in the rumor mill.

October 2016, before the official reveal, that foxconn leak about the higher clocks and also a chip twice as big as TX1, and being confirmed by the content of the post like shape of the heat sink and it's size, the weight of the device, joycons, the naming of SL and SR buttons on the side of the joycons that slide into the rail system, literally a dozen other pieces of information that all checked out, and some reporting about Nintendo possibly moving to Pascal over Maxwell... Led to Switch pro rumors in 2016 before Switch even released.

In 2019, Nintendo overclocked Mariko to 1267MHz on the GPU, a higher CPU clock and LPDDR4X ram, giving about a 2/3rds performance jump, but ultimately retained Switch clocks, likely because of Switch's success and simplifying development. These clocks still exist in firmware.

in 2020 we get reports about Nintendo asking developers to prepare 4K versions of Switch games.

in 2021, we get brainchild's info, and news about a more powerful switch, also Switch OLED model launches with all new hardware, tons of changes, except to the main SoC. Why? I mean some of these components are just more expensive for no reason.

Nvidia hack on March 1st 2022 confirms T239, NVN2. End of March 2022, Zelda is delayed to May 2023, outside of the holiday season. April 2022 engineer samples for T239 exist. August 2022, T239 goes into production. November 2022 Zelda has gone gold, yet we aren't playing it.

That isn't even the entire history here, but everything is ready for a Switch "2" to be produced and released in the first half of next year, Zelda could have been shipped this year IMO, delaying it for what reason is hard to tell, it's not like Nintendo doesn't have other games close for release that could fill the first half of next year.

Finally, just a side note, some people think there is no time to reveal new hardware before Zelda, but Switch, which was an entirely new concept only had 4 and a half months between the October 20th 2016 reveal video and March 3rd 2017 launch. The Switch presentation was Jan 13th 2017, less than 2 months before the device went on sale. We are 5 and a half months before release of Zelda. There is time to reveal a Switch "2" to launch alongside of it.

Do you not find it strange how DF, with their vast developer contacts, seemingly have no idea of any coming Nintendo console? They didn’t just talk about a past cancelled β€˜pro’ console, their general tone was that they were oblivious to what may come in future.

This isn’t normally the case whenever a console is supposedly 6 months out from release. It’s pretty clear from Nate’s posts that he doesn’t think any new console is due in the near future either and then we haven’t heard from Bloomberg for over a year also.

I hope you’re right of course, but the only people in the main who think this device is coming by May 2023 are in this thread. DF aren’t giving the opinion of 2023, analysts are mostly saying 2024 etc.

Do you have an explanation as to why barely anyone outside of here is expecting this new console in the next 6 months?
 
The obvious answer is that T239 is both chips. It likely was 8nm (with power draw problems) around the time Brainchild talked about the chip having power issues... That was Spring last year (so before that, we are talking a midgen refresh probably being canceled at the end of 2020. Then the T239 chip shrunk, giving us the DLSS test results sometime after June 2021 that LiC posted in here last week. We know engineering samples were in the wild in April 2022, that gives them plenty of time to cancel production on 8nm, redesign it for 5nm and have it launch in 1H 2023. Remember Zelda was delayed at the end of March 2022 (around the time engineering samples for T239 exist) to May 2023, that is probably because Drake was finally free of power issues. We know as of August 2022, that T239 is ready for full production, and thus all components for a next generation Switch is ready for production, lining up nicely for a 1H launch of Switch "2".

This is just the possible timeline of what happened, I think this makes perfect sense thanks to the OLED model, which Nintendo was already on the hook for these components. So if DF is correct about a midgen refresh in the past being canceled, I think it's clear why Switch "Pro" has hung around every year in the rumor mill.

October 2016, before the official reveal, that foxconn leak about the higher clocks and also a chip twice as big as TX1, and being confirmed by the content of the post like shape of the heat sink and it's size, the weight of the device, joycons, the naming of SL and SR buttons on the side of the joycons that slide into the rail system, literally a dozen other pieces of information that all checked out, and some reporting about Nintendo possibly moving to Pascal over Maxwell... Led to Switch pro rumors in 2016 before Switch even released.

In 2019, Nintendo overclocked Mariko to 1267MHz on the GPU, a higher CPU clock and LPDDR4X ram, giving about a 2/3rds performance jump, but ultimately retained Switch clocks, likely because of Switch's success and simplifying development. These clocks still exist in firmware.

in 2020 we get reports about Nintendo asking developers to prepare 4K versions of Switch games.

in 2021, we get brainchild's info, and news about a more powerful switch, also Switch OLED model launches with all new hardware, tons of changes, except to the main SoC. Why? I mean some of these components are just more expensive for no reason.

Nvidia hack on March 1st 2022 confirms T239, NVN2. End of March 2022, Zelda is delayed to May 2023, outside of the holiday season. April 2022 engineer samples for T239 exist. August 2022, T239 goes into production. November 2022 Zelda has gone gold, yet we aren't playing it.

That isn't even the entire history here, but everything is ready for a Switch "2" to be produced and released in the first half of next year, Zelda could have been shipped this year IMO, delaying it for what reason is hard to tell, it's not like Nintendo doesn't have other games close for release that could fill the first half of next year.

Finally, just a side note, some people think there is no time to reveal new hardware before Zelda, but Switch, which was an entirely new concept only had 4 and a half months between the October 20th 2016 reveal video and March 3rd 2017 launch. The Switch presentation was Jan 13th 2017, less than 2 months before the device went on sale. We are 5 and a half months before release of Zelda. There is time to reveal a Switch "2" to launch alongside of it.
Thats the most expansive and reasonable interpretation ive seen, and goes more in detail then my take.
Would also fit their itterative message during pre switch release, they wanted it, but it just did not pan out in reality like it does for phones since the expectations/reality of development just is different.
Great post.
Also explains the OLED, since it was hard to get what the point was by itself, but seing it as a byproduct of a canceled console makes perfect sense on the release timing.
 
The obvious answer is that T239 is both chips. It likely was 8nm (with power draw problems) around the time Brainchild talked about the chip having power issues... That was Spring last year (so before that, we are talking a midgen refresh probably being canceled at the end of 2020. Then the T239 chip shrunk, giving us the DLSS test results sometime after June 2021 that LiC posted in here last week. We know engineering samples were in the wild in April 2022, that gives them plenty of time to cancel production on 8nm, redesign it for 5nm and have it launch in 1H 2023. Remember Zelda was delayed at the end of March 2022 (around the time engineering samples for T239 exist) to May 2023, that is probably because Drake was finally free of power issues. We know as of August 2022, that T239 is ready for full production, and thus all components for a next generation Switch is ready for production, lining up nicely for a 1H launch of Switch "2".

This is just the possible timeline of what happened, I think this makes perfect sense thanks to the OLED model, which Nintendo was already on the hook for these components. So if DF is correct about a midgen refresh in the past being canceled, I think it's clear why Switch "Pro" has hung around every year in the rumor mill.

October 2016, before the official reveal, that foxconn leak about the higher clocks and also a chip twice as big as TX1, and being confirmed by the content of the post like shape of the heat sink and it's size, the weight of the device, joycons, the naming of SL and SR buttons on the side of the joycons that slide into the rail system, literally a dozen other pieces of information that all checked out, and some reporting about Nintendo possibly moving to Pascal over Maxwell... Led to Switch pro rumors in 2016 before Switch even released.

In 2019, Nintendo overclocked Mariko to 1267MHz on the GPU, a higher CPU clock and LPDDR4X ram, giving about a 2/3rds performance jump, but ultimately retained Switch clocks, likely because of Switch's success and simplifying development. These clocks still exist in firmware.

in 2020 we get reports about Nintendo asking developers to prepare 4K versions of Switch games.

in 2021, we get brainchild's info, and news about a more powerful switch, also Switch OLED model launches with all new hardware, tons of changes, except to the main SoC. Why? I mean some of these components are just more expensive for no reason.

Nvidia hack on March 1st 2022 confirms T239, NVN2. End of March 2022, Zelda is delayed to May 2023, outside of the holiday season. April 2022 engineer samples for T239 exist. August 2022, T239 goes into production. November 2022 Zelda has gone gold, yet we aren't playing it.

That isn't even the entire history here, but everything is ready for a Switch "2" to be produced and released in the first half of next year, Zelda could have been shipped this year IMO, delaying it for what reason is hard to tell, it's not like Nintendo doesn't have other games close for release that could fill the first half of next year.

Finally, just a side note, some people think there is no time to reveal new hardware before Zelda, but Switch, which was an entirely new concept only had 4 and a half months between the October 20th 2016 reveal video and March 3rd 2017 launch. The Switch presentation was Jan 13th 2017, less than 2 months before the device went on sale. We are 5 and a half months before release of Zelda. There is time to reveal a Switch "2" to launch alongside of it.
It would explain the "devs want to show off their software before E3 2021" comments from MZ. It also would explain the super weird actions from Nintendo this year (and really since 2020):
  • Aonuma saying they extended their dev time "a bit" AKA 6 months minimum
  • The mid-May launch for one of their biggest titles and not closing out the FY with it in late Mar.
  • The fact that we've only gotten three "first looks" or "teasers" without an "Official Trailer"" for Zelda over 3 years after its reveal
  • Closing out the FY with a Bayonetta spin-off
  • Canceling their E3/summer Direct
  • The weird XBC3 and Splatoon 3 date swap, suspiciously after TotK delay
  • The super brief "tease" of Pikmin 4, which somehow revealed even less details than the "Sequel to BotW is now in development" trailer in 2019, all with a vague 2023 release date
  • Titles randomly having FSR 1.0, like Switch Sports and Splatoon 3
  • Claims of Nintendo "sitting on games"
  • How Jeff Grub was so sure of MPRemaster coming this holiday (this one probably isn't related)
  • Claims by Chris Dring that Nintendo's release schedule is seemingly super quiet after Zelda next year
The Zelda timing and delay almost feels like a "how far can we push back manufacturing" or "what's the fastest we can get this chip die-shrunk". They've just been behaving so strangely the past few years.
 
Do you not find it strange how DF, with their vast developer contacts, seemingly have no idea of any coming Nintendo console? They didn’t just talk about a past cancelled β€˜pro’ console, their general tone was that they were oblivious to what may come in future.

This isn’t normally the case whenever a console is supposedly 6 months out from release. It’s pretty clear from Nate’s posts that he doesn’t think any new console is due in the near future either and then we haven’t heard from Bloomberg for over a year also.

I hope you’re right of course, but the only people in the main who think this device is coming by May 2023 are in this thread. DF aren’t giving the opinion of 2023, analysts are mostly saying 2024 etc.

Do you have an explanation as to why barely anyone outside of here is expecting this new console in the next 6 months?
atiming.add confusion because of the timeline, not many devs having real dev kits (probably cause it supports switch, so you dont need broad coverage for the release period outside of some hesvy hitters), hardware/design so close to the oled that its not as prevelant...

Im reaching slightly,but i could see it.
If we dont have anything by end of jannuary them im sure well slip to either holiday23 or spring 24
 
Do you not find it strange how DF, with their vast developer contacts, seemingly have no idea of any coming Nintendo console? They didn’t just talk about a past cancelled β€˜pro’ console, their general tone was that they were oblivious to what may come in future.

This isn’t normally the case whenever a console is supposedly 6 months out from release. It’s pretty clear from Nate’s posts that he doesn’t think any new console is due in the near future either and then we haven’t heard from Bloomberg for over a year also.

I hope you’re right of course, but the only people in the main who think this device is coming by May 2023 are in this thread. DF aren’t giving the opinion of 2023, analysts are mostly saying 2024 etc.

Do you have an explanation as to why barely anyone outside of here is expecting this new console in the next 6 months?
Analysts recently said FY2024, which actually starts on April 1st, in 4 months and ends March 31st 2024.

I don't think Drake will have exclusive software at launch. That is pretty much what it comes down to for me, Nintendo is in no hurry to abandon the Switch userbase, which is historically the best "buying" userbase ever for Nintendo, and their first party software sales are better than any userbase in the history of gaming. PS5 has very few exclusives that are not on the PS4, a very similar approach is likely what Nintendo is drawing out here.

I don't think 3rd party exclusives will come until holiday 2023, and first party exclusives are probably not happening until holiday 2025 IMO. Nintendo has talked about a long life for Switch, and I believe that means a 2 or 3 year cross gen, similar to what we are seeing right now with PS4.

DF also said they wouldn't report on new nintendo hardware like they did with the Switch, having contacts is great, but if Rich isn't reaching out to them, they are just sitting there.

Lastly, and I think this is probably key, the Switch "Pro"/"2" is a tired subject, but more importantly, what we are discussing here is illegally obtained information, that could actually be striked on Youtube, lead to threats of legal drama, and ultimately is data that is illegal to have in your possession, at least in some countries... Linux kernal stuff is really the only stuff people are willing to talk about with T239 right now, so without the connection to NVN2 in the Nvidia data breach, I think people are waiting for information that they can legally talk about. Maybe I'm completely off base here, but that is how I'm reading the "room".

Oh and Rich in this very same video did say he could see a new generation hardware launching with Zelda in 5 and a half months, so it's not like 2023 is actually off the table, especially because what John's midgen refresh information was about, is a 2021 product in actuality IMO, again the rumors about it are from spring 2022, and people under NDA's don't talk about cancelled projects the day they are cancelled usually, that puts the information at at least a year old, probably more like a year before we heard about it (spring 2021).
 
Do you not find it strange how DF, with their vast developer contacts, seemingly have no idea of any coming Nintendo console? They didn’t just talk about a past cancelled β€˜pro’ console, their general tone was that they were oblivious to what may come in future.

This isn’t normally the case whenever a console is supposedly 6 months out from release. It’s pretty clear from Nate’s posts that he doesn’t think any new console is due in the near future either and then we haven’t heard from Bloomberg for over a year also.

I hope you’re right of course, but the only people in the main who think this device is coming by May 2023 are in this thread. DF aren’t giving the opinion of 2023, analysts are mostly saying 2024 etc.

Do you have an explanation as to why barely anyone outside of here is expecting this new console in the next 6 months?
To be fair, if they did know about a console coming mid next year, they definitely wouldn't reveal a bomb like that in a podcast Q&A. You have to remember that Richard hand picks the questions that are going to be discussed and I feel that they felt fine including it because they genuinely don't have 100% confirmation one way or the other.

Let's frame it the other way. They don't sound incredibly sure that new hardware isn't coming out next year either. And regarding the idea that this is weird for being less than 5 months away and them not knowing: We haven't been in a situation like this before. Every other Nintendo console has been announced at least a year ahead of time, so we knew it was coming. Remember how painful the long silence was leading up to the NX reveal? Other than the EG bombshell in July 2016, details were extremely thin on Switch. And even after that, we still weren't 100% sure on the games or the exact announcement timing until right before it happened.

The point is all the hard data we have points to a May 2023 release, while the only things doubting that are people feeling unsure or thinking it's not happening. Again if we're likely 5 months away from this thing launching, shouldn't the opposite also be true in that surely someone would have known that Drake is not launching with Zelda?
 
To be fair, if they did know about a console coming mid next year, they definitely wouldn't reveal a bomb like that in a podcast Q&A. You have to remember that Richard hand picks the questions that are going to be discussed and I feel that they felt fine including it because they genuinely don't have 100% confirmation one way or the other.

Let's frame it the other way. They don't sound incredibly sure that new hardware isn't coming out next year either. And regarding the idea that this is weird for being less than 5 months away and them not knowing: We haven't been in a situation like this before. Every other Nintendo console has been announced at least a year ahead of time, so we knew it was coming. Remember how painful the long silence was leading up to the NX reveal? Other than the EG bombshell in July 2016, details were extremely thin on Switch. And even after that, we still weren't 100% sure on the games or the exact announcement timing until right before it happened.

The point is all the hard data we have points to a May 2023 release, while the only things doubting that are people feeling unsure or thinking it's not happening. Again if we're likely 5 months away from this thing launching, shouldn't the opposite also be true in that surely someone would have known that Drake is not launching with Zelda?
Who is Brainchild?
 
@NateDrake

Nate, you seem from all the Podcasts like a super cool dude. And we love you here at Fami and I think ResetEra, too.

Unfortunately, critique will always follow people like you who provides infos for a topic that is loved by many.

If you would say now Zelda is cancelled and Nintendo tells it right after, you would still get a lot of hate, wouldnt you?

So I really hope you will continue your journey here and everywhere else. Like I said in a post, you and DF, Grubb and so many others cant predict everything 100% right, especially not with Nintendo. Plus they do change plans all the time.

I still hope you will continue and give our Gamer heart hope ! Thanks!
 
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I still think this thing can launch in 2023 but there is not a sign that Zelda has gone gold yet, yes it was rated so it is completed content wise but I think it's no near to be gold.
"Going gold in video games is industry-speak for a completed game. To be specific, a video game is gold when it’s ready for publication without any unfinished areas. This event means the game is good enough to start printing copies."

I get what you are saying, but yeah, Zelda also had voice actors saying the game was complete. I don't know if it's that important when March at the end of the FY makes a far better time to release Zelda than May anyways. It's still a "why is this may?" because ultimately it's sitting there complete, with a specific reasoning for a May release, and we just saw Elden Ring launch in this timeframe and do extremely well, not to mention BotW launched in March and did extremely well... so yeah why May?
 
The latest from the buyer uncle whose tweets I share a few times in the past:

zExR78J.png
Sounds to me like it was in 2019, like everyone and their mother already knew about.

I'm guessing a 1, 2 3 punch of Link's Awakening, Dragon Quest XIS and The Witcher 3 would've been a pretty nice launch for a Pro.
 
I get what you are saying, but yeah, Zelda also had voice actors saying the game was complete.
That was in 2020 and was later confirmed to be fake news since there is no factual evidence that the said voice actors were actually working on the game, and the fact that it was in 2020 pretty much speaks for itself. If it was not Zelda I would be on the topic but in fact that this series has a common knowledge of being delayed even if it's in fact complete just to make it run little bit better or whatever than this franchise is Zelda.
 
Please read this staff post before posting.

Furthermore, according to this follow-up post, all off-topic chat will be moderated.
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