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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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bloopland33 said:
Interesting - thanks for sharing, it's super fun to speculate about this stuff! I apologize if the answer to this in your post (having Friday-afternoon-brain right now), but I'm not sure I see your need for one more Direct before Drake's announced. Why couldn't the timeline be shifted forward? The messaging they communicate at E3 after Drake's announced could just be their messaging for a March Direct after Drake's announced.
Click to expand...
"Need" is a strong word, it's more "the strategy that seems easiest" to me. If you want to support base Switch for the next 6 months to a year, the best way to say it is in the unambiguous language of game announcements and release dates. A Direct does that.

I think you want to do that before you drop big new hardware, otherwise you risk confusion. Imagine this scenario, announcing Drake first.

Nintendo: "Hey, this is our new Switch!"
Gamers: "Wait, what? Is this a pro? I wanted that thing two years ago, I'm over it now"
Nintendo: "It plays your existing games better"
Gamers: "Man, I just got an OLED too."
Nintendo: "Here is a game that won't be on the old Switch. Red Dead Redemption 2!"
Gamers: "Wait, exclusives? Big ones?"
Nintendo: "Don't worry, we'll continue to release games for the old Switch."
Gamers: "The way you say that makes me worried! That's what you said for the 3DS and the GameBoy Advanced and it was lies!"
Nintendo: "Launches in March"
Gamers: "YOU'RE ENDING THE SWITCH IN 3 MONTHS???"
Nintendo: "$400"
Gamers: "AND CHARGING ME MORE THAN A SERIES S FOR THE NEW ONE?"

Imagine the Direct after that, full of cross-gen games. Half the folks walk away thinking, gosh, this is just a pro, why are they charing so much, and the other half thinking, gosh, all these games go on Drake already? It really is the next gen. You lose control of the message.

Now imagine the inverse scenario

Nintendo: "Here is a direct with 25 new Switch games, from us and our partners, releasing over the next 6 months"
Gamers: "Cool"
Nintendo: "One more thing, Metroid Prime 4, holiday 2023"
Gamers: "Extremely cool!"
1 MONTH LATER
Nintendo: "Hey, this is our new Switch!"
Gamers: "Wait, what? Is this a pro? I wanted that thing two years ago, but man, Zelda and MP4... tempting"
Nintendo: "Here is a game that won't be on the old Switch. Red Dead Redemption 2!"
Gamers: "That is very cool. Wait, is this a pro, or is this a successor? I guess they're doing MP4 this Holiday, so it's a pro?"
Nintendo: "Don't worry, we'll continue to release games for the old Switch."
Gamers: "Oh shit maybe it's a successor? When is this thing coming out?"
Nintendo: "Launches in March, $400"
Gamers: "This is absolutely wild. I mean I definitely want it, but can I afford it? And are they just going to replace this thing with a Switch 2 next year? Guess I've got time to save up, even if it launches in March, I know they're dropping Switch games all year. Well, time to play some Splatoon while I wait for MP4"

See how they retain more control over the narrative this way? Whatever their long term strategy is, their short term strategy is like the GBA->DS or the 3DS->Switch, where they ran the devices in parallel. Except unlike those situations, the predecessor is wildly successful, but there is no TV only console line to buffer it out if the transition goes south.

I don't think they can risk appearing to be only making lip service to the idea of Classic Switch support. If that's really their intent they need to demonstrate it, then position new hardware in that context.
 
one of the benefits of having a Direct after the system announcement is that you don't have to have a separate PR specifying what's enhanced and what's not. games can just have "for Switch and Switch Advance" or one or the other. the problem with this is that devs will have to be notified long beforehand, leaving the door open to leaks

having the direct before would cut down on leaks, but you have to have some way of communicating what recently announced games are enhanced. only the system sellers and exclusives will be in the reveal video as to not make it too long
 
oldpuck said:
"Need" is a strong word, it's more "the strategy that seems easiest" to me. If you want to support base Switch for the next 6 months to a year, the best way to say it is in the unambiguous language of game announcements and release dates. A Direct does that.

I think you want to do that before you drop big new hardware, otherwise you risk confusion. Imagine this scenario, announcing Drake first.

Nintendo: "Hey, this is our new Switch!"
Gamers: "Wait, what? Is this a pro? I wanted that thing two years ago, I'm over it now"
Nintendo: "It plays your existing games better"
Gamers: "Man, I just got an OLED too."
Nintendo: "Here is a game that won't be on the old Switch. Red Dead Redemption 2!"
Gamers: "Wait, exclusives? Big ones?"
Nintendo: "Don't worry, we'll continue to release games for the old Switch."
Gamers: "The way you say that makes me worried! That's what you said for the 3DS and the GameBoy Advanced and it was lies!"
Nintendo: "Launches in March"
Gamers: "YOU'RE ENDING THE SWITCH IN 3 MONTHS???"
Nintendo: "$400"
Gamers: "AND CHARGING ME MORE THAN A SERIES S FOR THE NEW ONE?"

Imagine the Direct after that, full of cross-gen games. Half the folks walk away thinking, gosh, this is just a pro, why are they charing so much, and the other half thinking, gosh, all these games go on Drake already? It really is the next gen. You lose control of the message.

Now imagine the inverse scenario

Nintendo: "Here is a direct with 25 new Switch games, from us and our partners, releasing over the next 6 months"
Gamers: "Cool"
Nintendo: "One more thing, Metroid Prime 4, holiday 2023"
Gamers: "Extremely cool!"
1 MONTH LATER
Nintendo: "Hey, this is our new Switch!"
Gamers: "Wait, what? Is this a pro? I wanted that thing two years ago, but man, Zelda and MP4... tempting"
Nintendo: "Here is a game that won't be on the old Switch. Red Dead Redemption 2!"
Gamers: "That is very cool. Wait, is this a pro, or is this a successor? I guess they're doing MP4 this Holiday, so it's a pro?"
Nintendo: "Don't worry, we'll continue to release games for the old Switch."
Gamers: "Oh shit maybe it's a successor? When is this thing coming out?"
Nintendo: "Launches in March, $400"
Gamers: "This is absolutely wild. I mean I definitely want it, but can I afford it? And are they just going to replace this thing with a Switch 2 next year? Guess I've got time to save up, even if it launches in March, I know they're dropping Switch games all year. Well, time to play some Splatoon while I wait for MP4"

See how they retain more control over the narrative this way? Whatever their long term strategy is, their short term strategy is like the GBA->DS or the 3DS->Switch, where they ran the devices in parallel. Except unlike those situations, the predecessor is wildly successful, but there is no TV only console line to buffer it out if the transition goes south.

I don't think they can risk appearing to be only making lip service to the idea of Classic Switch support. If that's really their intent they need to demonstrate it, then position new hardware in that context.
Click to expand...
I guess it depends on how they're positioning it. If it's being positioned as a Pro and announce it first, per your first scenario, I don't think the market would be that confused. They're used to the idea of enhanced models now after last gen, including ones that cost $400 or more. (Yes the exclusive games factor does differentiate it a bit - but those being partners only and not that numerous at the beginning makes me think people won't get tripped up.)

If they want it viewed as a successor and Switch support is winding down sooner than I believe it will, then yeah maybe I see some of the confusion you laid out being more feasible.

Personally, knowing it's gonna have Switch in the name and being of the belief Nintendo's gonna still release games on Switch 1 for a good while, I don't think it will matter all that much. People are dumb, but at the same time...they're also not. You know what I mean? Haha. I think they'll follow along.
 
Look over there said:
So this is definitely above my level of understanding. I (and I'm sure others in this thread) would appreciate ELI5's of the salient points.
Click to expand...

"Moore's Law was dead: to begin with. There is no doubt whatever about that. The register of his burial was signed by the clergyman, the clerk, the undertaker, and the chief mourner. Planck signed it: and Planck's name was good upon ’Change, for anything he chose to put his hand to. Old Moore was as dead as a door-nail. There is no doubt that Moore was dead. This must be distinctly understood, or nothing wonderful can come of the story I am going to relate."
 
0
bloopland33 said:
I guess it depends on how they're positioning it. If it's being positioned as a Pro and announce it first, per your first scenario, I don't think the market would be that confused. They're used to the idea of enhanced models now after last gen, including ones that cost $400 or more. (Yes the exclusive games factor does differentiate it a bit - but those being partners only and not that numerous at the beginning makes me think people won't get tripped up.)

If they want it viewed as a successor and Switch support is winding down sooner than I believe it will, then yeah maybe I see some of the confusion you laid out being more feasible.

Personally, knowing it's gonna have Switch in the name and being of the belief Nintendo's gonna still release games on Switch 1 for a good while, I don't think it will matter all that much. People are dumb, but at the same time...they're also not. You know what I mean? Haha. I think they'll follow along.
Click to expand...
I don't think they're going to position it in anyway comparable to a PS4Pro or an Xbox One X and don't think they're going to turn off Switch support any time soon. I think they're going to do a new thing, and if you're going to do a new thing, you should tell a very clear story.
 
[Hypothesis]
Up to now we have mostly discussed the numerical data of what would be Nintendo's next gen, but did anyone see the switch concept coming, I'm not talking about the hybrid format, but what few expected until the announcement. Nintendo chose to make the evolution of the Wii remote and turn them into joy-cons, going back a generation and merging them with the Wii U concept, and giving autonomy to the system.

What would happen if Nintendo went back a generation and merged it with the Nintendo Switch?

True, it doesn't seem impossible having already a precedent.

Hidden content is only available for registered users. Sharing it outside of Famiboards is subject to moderation.


When reviewing the 4 previews of TloZ: Tears of the Kingdom with the possibility of a 3D screen, the way the video sequences are recorded now has its logic, very closed scenes and others with a very wide camera, sequences with the camera following the character from inclined angles, characters and objects give depth to the scenes. Even in the first trailer the rat makes a move towards the frontal plane, or even the approach to the dungeon has that immersive 3D effect feeling.

If someone else can take this hypothesis seriously and submit the 4 TotK previews to the possibility of having effects for a stereoscopic 3D mode, give us your opinion, could it be that a Totk3D is coming?
 
iNess said:
Hello everyone, and happy anniversary to the forum. can someone on the forum answer me the following:
  • Is it possible to know if a movie has a 3D version just by watching an ordinary trailer?
Click to expand...
Unless it's explicitly something like a "The Phantom Menace 3D" trailer, I don't think so. It's not like the 2D versions are created from the 3D versions leaving telltale artifacts or anything.
oldpuck said:
I don't think they're going to position it in anyway comparable to a PS4Pro or an Xbox One X and don't think they're going to turn off Switch support any time soon. I think they're going to do a new thing, and if you're going to do a new thing, you should tell a very clear story.
Click to expand...
"We're doing the same thing the other guys have been doing for the last two years." Very clear.
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
"We're doing the same thing the other guys have been doing for the last two years." Very clear.
Click to expand...
Yeah, maybe that's the message and maybe it's super clear! One way to say that very clearly is to do the Direct before Drake announcement, and lay the groundwork for that cross-gen support, especially if there are exclusives to be announced. We're talking about a 3 month window from announcement to launch, XSS|X and PS5 both had 18 months.
 
0
iNess said:
[Hypothesis]
Up to now we have mostly discussed the numerical data of what would be Nintendo's next gen, but did anyone see the switch concept coming, I'm not talking about the hybrid format, but what few expected until the announcement. Nintendo chose to make the evolution of the Wii remote and turn them into joy-cons, going back a generation and merging them with the Wii U concept, and giving autonomy to the system.

What would happen if Nintendo went back a generation and merged it with the Nintendo Switch?

True, it doesn't seem impossible having already a precedent.

* Hidden text: cannot be quoted. *


When reviewing the 4 previews of TloZ: Tears of the Kingdom with the possibility of a 3D screen, the way the video sequences are recorded now has its logic, very closed scenes and others with a very wide camera, sequences with the camera following the character from inclined angles, characters and objects give depth to the scenes. Even in the first trailer the rat makes a move towards the frontal plane, or even the approach to the dungeon has that immersive 3D effect feeling.

If someone else can take this hypothesis seriously and submit the 4 TotK previews to the possibility of having effects for a stereoscopic 3D mode, give us your opinion, could it be that a Totk3D is coming?
Click to expand...
I feel like because of the hybrid nature of the Switch they will not include a feature like this. I mean it would only be something you could enjoy in handheld mode, 3D TVs are almost non-existent today. Maybe I‘m biased because I can‘t really see any form of 3D with my stupid eyes, but I don‘t see a future in this technology.
 
0
oldpuck said:
I don't think they're going to position it in anyway comparable to a PS4Pro or an Xbox One X and don't think they're going to turn off Switch support any time soon. I think they're going to do a new thing, and if you're going to do a new thing, you should tell a very clear story.
Click to expand...
Yeah to be clear I think I feel the same way in the end regarding your first sentence. I just still see it working if Drake is announced first....but hey, who knows what will happen! It's exciting and excruciating at the same time...I don't care how they announce it, just can't wait to see it!
 
Look over there said:
Hold up; I'm not necessarily sold that's referring to CPU to RAM bandwidth.
Extremetech's version of the news thinks that it's CPU to L3 cache bandwidth.
I'm actually doubtful that there was change in CPU to RAM bandwidth. The A78C announcement makes no mention of any changes to the # of AMBA CHI ports (should still be 1x 256-bit like with 2017 DynamIQ?). In contrast, the DSU-110 update specifically mentions the ability to scale up to 4x 256-bit ports.
Click to expand...
I don’t doubt that they didn’t change anything or what you’re saying, however, I do doubt the part of the CPU to L3 being that low, because L3$ has a much higher bandwidth than that usually. And if I’m not mistaken the bandwidth it has is directly tied to the clock frequency of the CPU.

If I may be blunt and brash here, the 6700k for instance L3 cache is in the 200-300GB/s range.



index.php

mariodk18 said:
Wow has it really been a year since 11 devs and spices? Time sure flies…
Click to expand...
It’s funny that you mention that, and this is a discussion I had with @LiC the other day. Let’s take a look at what was reported in 2020, the report came in about September right? Do you want to know what happened later that year?

The Capcom ransomware hack. Now a reason for why this shouldn’t have shown up on such a ransomware hack is that by the time that the hack happened and by the time that this report of dev kits came out, the very initial report, not the 11 one, developers first have to try to get their engines to work and run on the device before they even think of adding the platform into their pipeline for any game, point blank period.

Getting an engine more tailored for that platform can take several months to over a year of work to make any development process much easier to deal with especially in a way that streamlines the whole development.


I know most AAA engines already support TAA and thus adding DLSS is easier, it’s not straightforward.

I think a good example of a lot of legwork needed to be done to get an engine on a platform is look no further than RE engine for the switch. It is forked from the original engine what is most likely going to be the one that is involved for the Drake platform in the long-term (or not, idk).


And Capcom described a bit of it here:

www.nintendolife.com

Monster Hunter Rise Director Talks RE Engine On Switch

"Optimization was very difficult, but it was also challenging and rewarding"
www.nintendolife.com www.nintendolife.com



Drake already has a different architecture all around, therefore, it needs its own allocated time and energy for getting multiple engines from multiple studios to work for it, and this is in the background and things we don’t see as the gamer that just buys it.
 
ReddDreadtheLead said:
I don’t doubt that they didn’t change anything or what you’re saying, however, I do doubt the part of the CPU to L3 being that low, because L3$ has a much higher bandwidth than that usually. And if I’m not mistaken the bandwidth it has is directly tied to the clock frequency of the CPU.

If I may be blunt and brash here, the 6700k for instance L3 cache is in the 200-300GB/s range.



index.php


It’s funny that you mention that, and this is a discussion I had with @LiC the other day. Let’s take a look at what was reported in 2020, the report came in about September right? Do you want to know what happened later that year?

The Capcom ransomware hack. Now a reason for why this shouldn’t have shown up on such a ransomware hack is that by the time that the hack happened and by the time that this report of dev kits came out, the very initial report, not the 11 one, developers first have to try to get their engines to work and run on the device before they even think of adding the platform into their pipeline for any game, point blank period.

Getting an engine more tailored for that platform can take several months to over a year of work to make any development process much easier to deal with especially in a way that streamlines the whole development.


I know most AAA engines already support TAA and thus adding DLSS is easier, it’s not straightforward.

I think a good example of a lot of legwork needed to be done to get an engine on a platform is look no further than RE engine for the switch. It is forked from the original engine what is most likely going to be the one that is involved for the Drake platform in the long-term (or not, idk).


And Capcom described a bit of it here:

www.nintendolife.com

Monster Hunter Rise Director Talks RE Engine On Switch

"Optimization was very difficult, but it was also challenging and rewarding"
www.nintendolife.com www.nintendolife.com



Drake already has a different architecture all around, therefore, it needs its own allocated time and energy for getting multiple engines from multiple studios to work for it, and this is in the background and things we don’t see as the gamer that just buys it.
Click to expand...
Wouldn’t the original RE engine be able to run just fine without being its own bespoke version on Drake? Would there be a point in getting the Switch version souped up?
 
ReddDreadtheLead said:
I don’t doubt that they didn’t change anything or what you’re saying, however, I do doubt the part of the CPU to L3 being that low, because L3$ has a much higher bandwidth than that usually. And if I’m not mistaken the bandwidth it has is directly tied to the clock frequency of the CPU.

If I may be blunt and brash here, the 6700k for instance L3 cache is in the 200-300GB/s range.



index.php


It’s funny that you mention that, and this is a discussion I had with @LiC the other day. Let’s take a look at what was reported in 2020, the report came in about September right? Do you want to know what happened later that year?

The Capcom ransomware hack. Now a reason for why this shouldn’t have shown up on such a ransomware hack is that by the time that the hack happened and by the time that this report of dev kits came out, the very initial report, not the 11 one, developers first have to try to get their engines to work and run on the device before they even think of adding the platform into their pipeline for any game, point blank period.

Getting an engine more tailored for that platform can take several months to over a year of work to make any development process much easier to deal with especially in a way that streamlines the whole development.


I know most AAA engines already support TAA and thus adding DLSS is easier, it’s not straightforward.

I think a good example of a lot of legwork needed to be done to get an engine on a platform is look no further than RE engine for the switch. It is forked from the original engine what is most likely going to be the one that is involved for the Drake platform in the long-term (or not, idk).


And Capcom described a bit of it here:

www.nintendolife.com

Monster Hunter Rise Director Talks RE Engine On Switch

"Optimization was very difficult, but it was also challenging and rewarding"
www.nintendolife.com www.nintendolife.com



Drake already has a different architecture all around, therefore, it needs its own allocated time and energy for getting multiple engines from multiple studios to work for it, and this is in the background and things we don’t see as the gamer that just buys it.
Click to expand...
Now that you mention it, I wonder if UE5 could run in Drake without SSD level speeds.
 
ReddDreadtheLead said:
I don’t doubt that they didn’t change anything or what you’re saying, however, I do doubt the part of the CPU to L3 being that low, because L3$ has a much higher bandwidth than that usually. And if I’m not mistaken the bandwidth it has is directly tied to the clock frequency of the CPU.

If I may be blunt and brash here, the 6700k for instance L3 cache is in the 200-300GB/s range.



index.php
Click to expand...
For what it's worth, you're suggesting that the A78C cluster is capable of nearly double the CPU to RAM bandwidth of the 6700k shown here.

Anyway, it just hit me. Part of the DSU-110 update is splitting the L3 cache up into slices. It is specifically touted that parallel access to cache increases bandwidth. They actually claim 5x L3 bandwidth, although I suspect that's 5x relative to the 2017 DSU.
How's that relevant here? You remember how Intel likes to organize their L3 cache, right? For the readers, Intel splits up the L3 cache into slices and apportions them such that there is one slice right next to each core.
I think that it is plausible for the older versions of the DSU to have CPU to L3 cache bandwidth in the mid 2 digit GB/s range, thus implying that the DSU-110 can reach low 3 digit GB/s.

Edit: before anybody says, 'but Intel uses a ring bus, that's different!', that applies to the 2017 DSU which is cross-bar. DSU-110 though is dual ring bus.

Edit 2: Actually, for completeness, the CPU to RAM bandwidth may be a higher number. The way the Anandtech article for the DSU-110 talks about it...
"The new DSU can scale up to 4x AMBA CHI ports, meaning we’ll have up to 1024-bit total bi-directional bandwidth to the system memory. With a theoretical DSU clock of around 2GHz this would enable bandwidth of up to 256GB/s reads or writes, or double that when combined, plenty enough to be able to saturate also eventual high-end laptop configurations."
So 1x256-bit AMBA CHI port could probably do 64 GB/s if the DSU is clocked high enough. That said, I don't think the '60 GB/s' figure in the A78C announcement refers to CPU<->RAM, because the 2017 DSU already allowed for 1x-256 AMBA CHI port; it wouldn't be a change to mention at all.
 
Last edited:
iNess said:
Hello everyone, and happy anniversary to the forum. can someone on the forum answer me the following:
  • Is it possible to know if a movie has a 3D version just by watching an ordinary trailer?
Click to expand...

In the peak of 3D craziness, absolutely. There were always the money shot with action moving towards the camera clearly aiming to emphatize the 3D effect. In the last years the few 3D movies we got are mostly lazy convertions of 2D footage, so no.
 
0
ertaboy356b said:
Now that you mention it, I wonder if UE5 could run in Drake without SSD level speeds.
Click to expand...
A very early version of UE5 runs on a GTX1060 (4.4tflops) extremely close to a locked 30fps at 1080p.

The engine is at this time much more CPU than GPU/RAM/SSD limited but they've been working on CPU optimisation for the past year so it should get much better next time they release a new demo with new assets.

My guess is that AAA Unreal Engine 5 games that really push visuals will run like this -

Drake - Dynamic 1080p DLSS/30fps.
Series S - *Dynamic 900p/30fps.
PS5 - *Dynamic 1440p/30fps.
Series X - *Dynamic 1440p/30fps

*All resolutions reconstructed from a far lower base like 720p to 900p and 1080p to 1440p using Unreal's upscaling tech. On PC you'll be able to stack it with DLSS and FSR. 60fps should be possible in AA / more stylistic games.
 
0
iNess said:
[Hypothesis]
Up to now we have mostly discussed the numerical data of what would be Nintendo's next gen, but did anyone see the switch concept coming, I'm not talking about the hybrid format, but what few expected until the announcement. Nintendo chose to make the evolution of the Wii remote and turn them into joy-cons, going back a generation and merging them with the Wii U concept, and giving autonomy to the system.

What would happen if Nintendo went back a generation and merged it with the Nintendo Switch?

True, it doesn't seem impossible having already a precedent.

* Hidden text: cannot be quoted. *


When reviewing the 4 previews of TloZ: Tears of the Kingdom with the possibility of a 3D screen, the way the video sequences are recorded now has its logic, very closed scenes and others with a very wide camera, sequences with the camera following the character from inclined angles, characters and objects give depth to the scenes. Even in the first trailer the rat makes a move towards the frontal plane, or even the approach to the dungeon has that immersive 3D effect feeling.

If someone else can take this hypothesis seriously and submit the 4 TotK previews to the possibility of having effects for a stereoscopic 3D mode, give us your opinion, could it be that a Totk3D is coming?
Click to expand...
Labo VR 2 for Drachenswitch
 
0
Polygon said:
I'd love to see what kind of framerates it gets on anything that doesn't look like a PS2 game :p
Click to expand...
Engines do not dictate how a game runs on hardware. I wish people would stop equating engines with specific graphics or requirements, that's not how it works.

You can make a UE5 game that looks modern and also runs 60fps on Switch, it just needs to be relatively simple.
 
Skittzo said:
Engines do not dictate how a game runs on hardware. I wish people would stop equating engines with specific graphics or requirements, that's not how it works.

You can make a UE5 game that looks modern and also runs 60fps on Switch, it just needs to be relatively simple.
Click to expand...
I think your sarcasm detector is off.
 
ILikeFeet said:
load up fortnite then. it's pretty stable 30fps
Click to expand...
Hmm I've not tried it on Switch for over a year but it was a mess at times when the map got detailed and more than a few players were on screen like sub 20fps bad. I might redownload it to try, cheers.
 
0
Skittzo said:
Engines do not dictate how a game runs on hardware. I wish people would stop equating engines with specific graphics or requirements, that's not how it works.

You can make a UE5 game that looks modern and also runs 60fps on Switch, it just needs to be relatively simple.
Click to expand...
You don't need to tell me this lol. My point was Switch wouldn't run a 30fps PS4 level AAA UE5 game which uses Nanite and / or Lumen very well. As impressive as The Witcher 3, DOOM, DOOM Eternal, Wolf II are they do not hold a stable 30fps outside of downtime / small areas. They all drop to the low 20's once the engine is pushed. It's not a knock on Switch, it is what it is and it's impressive it can run the games at all.

Fortnite is a different beast because of it's artstyle. It's also 60fps on XBO/PS4 meaning it's a lot easier to get the game on Switch simply by cutting the framerate target in half much like the DOOM / Wolf games. As @ILikeFeet said before you get 4x more visual budget by targeting 30fps instead of 60fps. 60fps is a massive reason some of the more graphically intense Switch ports exist and why games that target 30fps on PS4 like GTAV, ME Trilogy, Arkham Knight etc which seem like no brainers aren't on the console due to the costs associated with down porting a 30fps last gen game to Switch.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Skittzo said:
You can make a UE5 game that looks modern and also runs 60fps on Switch, it just needs to be relatively simple.
Click to expand...
You can make a game with sprites on simple 3D backgrounds and run it at 60fps in UE4, but you've got to cut the resolution.
 
0
oldpuck said:
(First half of the post)
Click to expand...
The problem with this line of thinking is that imo, people who wanted a switch pro 2 years ago still want it. They bought an OLED? they'd still want a next gen switch regardless. How they're going to get their hands on one is another thing...
I think that the fact most people who saw the OLED and already had a v1/v2 switch kept their consoles instead of upgrading proves the argument that a switch pro would be more of a "hey, you still have that old switch? we have an upgrade now, come check it out, it runs games better and has multiple overall improvements".
 
iNess said:
[Hypothesis]
Up to now we have mostly discussed the numerical data of what would be Nintendo's next gen, but did anyone see the switch concept coming, I'm not talking about the hybrid format, but what few expected until the announcement. Nintendo chose to make the evolution of the Wii remote and turn them into joy-cons, going back a generation and merging them with the Wii U concept, and giving autonomy to the system.

What would happen if Nintendo went back a generation and merged it with the Nintendo Switch?

True, it doesn't seem impossible having already a precedent.

* Hidden text: cannot be quoted. *


When reviewing the 4 previews of TloZ: Tears of the Kingdom with the possibility of a 3D screen, the way the video sequences are recorded now has its logic, very closed scenes and others with a very wide camera, sequences with the camera following the character from inclined angles, characters and objects give depth to the scenes. Even in the first trailer the rat makes a move towards the frontal plane, or even the approach to the dungeon has that immersive 3D effect feeling.

If someone else can take this hypothesis seriously and submit the 4 TotK previews to the possibility of having effects for a stereoscopic 3D mode, give us your opinion, could it be that a Totk3D is coming?
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As much as I liked the stereoscopic effect on 3ds, I don't think Nintendo would come with that (unless (and even then it's a maybe) there was a huge jump/breakthrough in the technology used).

What would happen if Nintendo went back a generation and merged it with the Nintendo Switch?
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Sometimes I catch myself thinking about the possibility of Nintendo adding Wi-Fi to the dock, so we can replicate the wii u capabilities.

Edit: just to clarify: not for every game. Just for selected titles they believe it could work great. I'm sure they had some cool ideas of mechanics (asynchronous multi-player) they didn't implement on the Wii U because of the poor performance [in sales]
 
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Hermii said:
I think your sarcasm detector is off.
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In their defense, we've had genuine people think UE5 wouldn't run on Switch or "What's the point if you can't use the modern engine effects and toolsets?" type responses. That's been a huge problem since UE5 got announced and a few games were confirmed to be on UE5.
 
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niconiconick64 said:
The problem with this line of thinking is that imo, people who wanted a switch pro 2 years ago still want it. They bought an OLED? they'd still want a next gen switch regardless
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In the minds of most consumers Pro is not Next Gen. If you don’t believe that I have 528 pages of a forum you can check out.

I had this conversation just the other day with a pair of (technically savvy) friends. They are adamant they don’t want a pro, they want next gen. They don’t want to be 6 years the Switches lifetime just to pay a premium to play the same PS3 era ports just at decent frame rates. They’re ready for a next gen leap.

Their reaction to a pro is they’ll wait for the real next gen system.

Tell them it is the next gen system, then you’re going to upset the folks who are happy with their switch, and don’t have the usual year to prepare to move on.

I don’t think this is an impossible task. I think whatever the messaging is, Nintendo will probably nail it. But I think 100% they are considering conversations like that while they develop their plan.

I also think that NoA is desperately hoping NCL will let them do some expectation management around the long standing Pro rumors and that they understand the expectations PS 4 Pro and One X set (which had no exclusives, you’ll recall), while NCL is micromanaging that message from afar and steadfastly ignoring their competitors messaging as they often do.


niconiconick64 said:
I think that the fact most people who saw the OLED and already had a v1/v2 switch kept their consoles instead of upgrading proves the argument that a switch pro would be more of a "hey, you still have that old switch? we have an upgrade now, come check it out, it runs games better and has multiple overall improvements".
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I don’t see how this follows at all.

But also I don’t know how most people replacing their switch is a good metric for anything. If Nintendo’s Magic Next Gen Device comes out and it sells fantastically, the best any Nintendo system ever sold, it will still need 3 years to cross the “most users” line, and only if 100% of buyers were previous switch owners.
 
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Kise Ryota said:
Why 4x?
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the tweets have since been deleated but sites wrote articles on them.

As @booncotter comments, it all comes down to how good you want the game to look. If you move at 60 frames per second, that means the game has 16 milliseconds per frame to render. 10 of those milliseconds are limited to basic costs, with the remaining six being where particles, reflections, and other processing effects can be included.

The key comes when instead of 60 images per second the game moves at 30 fps, at which time the 16 milliseconds we mentioned before are doubled and the game has more space of time to add improvements.

With 33 milliseconds per frame for rendering, subtracting those aforementioned 10 milliseconds for the basics, 23 milliseconds are left for artifacts and effects. Four times more of what was available moving at 60 images per second.
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A Naughty Dog artist details why games are targeting 30 fps instead of 60, and why the new generation won’t change that - SamaGame

Although social networks can be a toothache, they often also offer us gifts like the one you have below. The proximity of one of the...
samagame.com samagame.com
 
mariodk18 said:
Do if we don’t hear about production starting within the next two months, we should start to worry, right? November production for a May launch?
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We already heard about production. Same factory leak that had the Splatoon 3 OLED reveal date also explained there's a new model in or entering production which had, as I understand it, been in validation for months at that time.

Plus, even if we hear nothing, it could just be Nintendo plugging leaks, nothing to worry about, has no bearing on the actual launch date of the product.
 
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mariodk18 said:
Do if we don’t hear about production starting within the next two months, we should start to worry, right? November production for a May launch?
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I mean, I’m not worried no matter what, it’s not my company, I’m just here playing “Nintendo Simulator” and no matter what happens I’m playing Zelda in May on my OLED, no way I’m gonna be able to get a launch model.

But I wouldn’t guarantee we’d hear about production starting. We got no hint about OLED production starting except for Bloomberg, and the Bloomberg story hid the source.

On the other hand, if it turns out Drake really did start production in April, and the device comes out with a cut out style kickstand then arguably we already heard of production starting.
 
iNess said:
Hello everyone, and happy anniversary to the forum. can someone on the forum answer me the following:
  • Is it possible to know if a movie has a 3D version just by watching an ordinary trailer?
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Yes, often. For a while it was extremely common to see something like “In Real D and IMAX 3D” on the same “info card” in the trailer that lists the date (for example. “In Real D and IMAX 3D November 25”). As interest in 3D has cooled somewhat that’s become a little bit less common (generally replaced now with “Only in Theaters,” to emphasize that the movie is Not Streaming) but you can generally see the logos for the different 3D formats on the info cards at the end of the trailer, if you have a keen eye. A lot of times showing those logos (or the logos for Dolby Atmos and Dolby Vision or whatever) are contractually mandated, based on the agreement that the film studio has with the exhibition technology vendor in question.
 
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mariodk18 said:
Wouldn’t the original RE engine be able to run just fine without being its own bespoke version on Drake? Would there be a point in getting the Switch version souped up?
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The original would be able to run fine enough, yeah, but it wouldn’t really make use of the hardware.


Like Mesh Shaders, Ray Tracing, DLSS (if it didn’t support it), Variable Rate Shading, etc, etc.


Think of it this way, everything currently runs on the current consoles, but they don’t make use of all the hardware features of the next generation consoles, Cross gen is a way to hide the work (in time) needed to be done to make better use of those console in the meantime. and to release games too while they are there.


It’s a transition period where a lot happens in the shadows.
 
BTW, the following was posted on Baidu, a Chinese forum, on July 7. What do you think?

今年不会有新机的【ns吧】_百度贴吧

今年不会有新机的..先说一下我知道的情报（信息来源烟台xx康）没有oled版lite，Lite和续航版作为低端线被保留，估计直到NS退役。新机是加强版，非换代。直接沿用Oled的面板和产品线，只做了芯片的升级。oled的
tieba.baidu.com tieba.baidu.com

Let me talk about the intelligence I know (source of information Yantai xx Kang)

There is no oled version of the lite, and the Lite and battery versions are retained as low-end lines, presumably until the NS is retired.

The new machine is an enhanced version, not a replacement. The panels and product lines of Oled are directly used, and only the chips are upgraded.

The assembly line of oled was only replaced with a new "enhanced version" in May. It took half a year to produce and distribute goods, and it was too late to launch this year.

In the first half of this year, two Oled version limited machines were produced to clear the stock of old chips. One has now been announced.
 
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