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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

My wishlist:
  • Low latency Bluetooth + Headphone jack on Joycons and Procon.
  • Front camera with movement recognition software for improved motion control. Sorta like the IR pointer in the Wii. I find this a good use of the tensor cores in lighter games where DLSS is not needed.
the new bluetooth protocol would be great for Drake. cuts down on latency without relying on proprietary codecs

Couldn't a "Pro" dock with an active cooling solution help cool down the system/SoC when docked, without relying on additional onboard cooling?
it's possible. a dock with a fan that blows air onto a conductive back would be cool

Is it just me or is GTA 6 for drake a lock? It seems GTA 6 is coming to last gen platforms and drake should be more than capable of running the game. I expect a big expansion to come for GTA 6 a few years down the line that is exclusive to current gen. Hopefully drake is strong enough to get that version as well or we may get GTA 6 and 7 in a single generation.
with GTA Online a separate product, I think the chances are increased.
 
So I messed around with the tool itself, I avoided all the on and off BS because it wasn't what we were trying to figure out, and since we were looking for the max power draw, with T234's configurations and architecture weirdness (A78AE on 3 clusters instead of A78C on one cluster and different gen Tensor cores, among other things), I just picked a CPU clock, choose the minimum CPU cores (2), clicked the estimate power button, noted it, then turned the core count to 10 cores, then subtracted the noted number from the new one... This gives you a power draw greater than Drake's 8 A78C cores, because it is on 3 clusters instead of one, with the A78AE cores which are bigger and have extra logic drawing power...

For the CPU I set the clock to 1497MHz on 2 cores with a high load, the other settings don't matter, because I'm isolating the CPU, the only number that matters is the difference between this one and the 10 core estimate, anyways base power draw here was 9.2w at whatever other settings I have and 2 cores at 1497MHz, with 10 cores it draws 12.4w at the same clock with a high load... this is 3.2w for this clock, remember Drake will be more energy efficient since it's 1 cluster with a smaller A78C core without the extra logic...

Next we have the GPU, I did this same thing, 2TPC (4SM) at 420MHz with a high load and saw 11w, with 8TPC at 420MHz, it estimated 15.7w, meaning Orin's additional 12SM is drawing 4.7w here...

CPU 8*A78AE at 1.5GHz for 3.2w on a High load + GPU 12SM at 420MHz for 4.7w on a high load, 7.9w... I'd suggest Orin's tweaks would net maybe half a watt over Drake's configuration, so more like 7.4w on a high load for both the CPU and GPU with those above clocks.

Now it's time to look at Erista, see we haven't been looking at high load, we've been looking at power consumption during Zelda botw, which we know lasts around 3 hours of battery life and draws 7.1w with the min screen brightness and 9w with the max screen brightness. We know that the battery is 4315mah, at 5V that is ~21.5wh, so at 7.1w per hour, you'd drain about the entire batter after 3 hours of gaming with Zelda. However, we know that other games have pushed Erista much harder, with battery life only being 2 hours, or near 11w power draw, though we can suggest the screen probably was set somewhere in the middle, we know that during Zelda gameplay, SoC is between 5.3w and 5.5w on average, this means maximum power draw for Erista is over 7w for the SoC.

With the numbers I've ran, in the method I've used above, and the understanding that Orin isn't as efficient for gaming as Drake would be, these clocks are what make sense on 8nm:
CPU: 8*A78C at 1.5GHz
GPU: 12SM at 460MHz in portable and 768MHz in docked (read ahead)


I also wanted to give Orin's medium load numbers, as this would match up better with Zelda's gaming numbers, with the clocks above, Nvidia power tools gives me 2.1w for the CPU and 4.2w for the GPU (it should be noted that the change being so small in the GPU when load is reduced, probably means it is near the low end for the power curve), because of the small change here, they might look at Switch's 460MHz clock for portable still, which would add around .5w here at medium load.

This gives you 6.3w with Orin at those clocks and Drake's core count, remember you'd probably see a reduction of maybe half a watt moving to Drake, so ~5.8w, but with Switch's portable clock of 460MHz, you'd be back up to ~6.3w.

Docked with the GPU clocked at 726.75MHz, it would draw 10w with Orin's chip on a high load, however with 828.75MHz it draws 12.5w, so with Switch's 768MHz, it should draw about 11w on a high load, however at 768MHz for Orin on medium load, we are looking at just under 10w. Again Drake should be more efficient here, so you could see a couple 10th of a watts shaved off, suggesting this clock to be valid for Drake as well, pushing the SoC up to only ~12w in docked mode in a medium load and ~14w for a high load.

That's where I'm going with this, this is the simplest way to use this Nvidia power tools, all I'm doing is isolating what 8 Orin CPU cores adds to the power draw regardless of the extra architecture it would have, same with the GPU and adding 12SM, these are more power draw than Drake should see with Orin's added complexity, so it's save to use these and reduce slightly.

The clocks I gave earlier were based on BlackTangMaster's use of Nvidia Power Tools and whatever method he mathed out, but I couldn't figure that out and what made sense for me was to just subtract the base power draw from the CPU and GPU configurations in isolation, the earlier clocks would probably work with Samsung 5nm, which Drake could very much be, we don't know, it's tough to guess the future, so if we see those higher clocks, I'd generally assume the chip was shrunk to a more advance node, this is something Nintendo did with the Wii back in the day, moving from 130um to 90nm from Gamecube to Wii, and 5nm has been available for years with Samsung losing major companies from that process node, I wouldn't write off Nvidia and Nintendo going with 5nm for Drake.
Thank you for explaining what I could not but have been saying for what has felt like forever!
 
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Is it just me or is GTA 6 for drake a lock? It seems GTA 6 is coming to last gen platforms and drake should be more than capable of running the game. I expect a big expansion to come for GTA 6 a few years down the line that is exclusive to current gen. Hopefully drake is strong enough to get that version as well or we may get GTA 6 and 7 in a single generation.

GTA V for Switch could also be called lock, having on mind its PS3/X360 game that was re-released for XB1/PS4 even we got PS5 version.
 
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A headphone jack on joycons and the pro controller (also a mic), and a redesign of the + - screencap and home buttons.

Make tall of them have a slight glow such as when you connect the pro controller to a pc, make the home button bigger and in the middle, and make the other buttons less deep.
 
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Nvidia confirms T239 is like saying water is wet at this point. The far more interesting bit, is the one about 8 cpu cores.

I haven’t actually listened to it, so I don’t know if they discuss that part.
TLDW:
  • They're not confident that T239 is related to Nintendo.
  • The update about the 8 cpu cores is a nothing-burger (according to them).
  • Overall they don't think this 'leak' is meaningful in any capacity (aside from fun speculation) and it doesn't hold any weight on release timing.
 
GTA V for Switch could also be called lock, having on mind its PS3/X360 game that was re-released for XB1/PS4 even we got PS5 version.

Depends entirely on the rumors of Red Dead Redemption 2 are real. If its coming to Switch (or just Drake) then I can see GTAV for Switch/Drake.

But aren’t both games on their last legs? Hang R stopped supporting online mode for both games over GTAVI?
 
TLDW:
  • They're not confident that T239 is related to Nintendo.
  • The update about the 8 cpu cores is a nothing-burger (according to them).
  • Overall they don't think this 'leak' is meaningful in any capacity and it doesn't hold any weight on release timing.
Yeah uhhh... this one is odd. T239 was not only claimed in 2021 by Kopite, who is rarely wrong about anything, to be the chip Nintendo is using. It was also expressly referred to in the NVN2 API along with references to an NX platform.

It would take some very very odd coincidences with acronyms and extremely reliable people being wrong for T239 not to be related to Nintendo.
 
I would like the gyro to have better latency again, like it was on wii u (might not even be a hardware issue but a software (OS) one, because using the pro controller (and also the joy-con) on steam has a much better performance).


Also, +1 who wants a better motion controls. I would even trade performance for joy-cons VR like. I would prefer cameras on the controller, so every user would have the feature out of the box [for devs to support it].

The cheapest way tho would be using an USB camera with add-ons for the joy-cons (with the IR LED ring). I don't like this one because of FoV and occlusion tho (also the accessory nature of it).

I'm a truly believer of motion controls, even outside VR. I wish Nintendo would pay more attention to this.

I also want a better way to connect the joy-cons to the console. It's a pain in the ass when the controllers start to wobble and you keep losing connection (I end up having to use a tape so the controllers can connect tightly again).

I was thinking about using magnetics to connect [the joy-cons] to the console (no rails anymore). BTW, I don't care losing physical compatibility with current joy-cons [if that means a much more reliable connection].

And one last thing: 8" screen. Yeah, I just love tabletop mode. I play a lot of Mario party with my sister and nephew (and other games), and a 8" would be perfect for us. The increase in size and weight wouldn't bother me. And I already said I don't care losing physical compatibility with current joy-cons...

Wait, I just remembered another thing. I would like if Nintendo added some grips in the box to be used in handheld mode. I like the flat design exactly because it gives you more flexibility (unlike steam deck, where you are basically locked in a single way to hold it, and you can't just "switch joy-cons"), but I think Nintendo could include something in the box.

Actually nintendo could use that grip [they made for the switch] in a way where you could detach the sides from that middle piece and then connect it to the console... Using magnetics :p (yeah, it seems I have a fetish for it LOL). That way the grip would have even more use, because many people never used it as they bought a pro controller.

I thought the switch was uncomfortably heavy because my hands would start hurting much before the battery would start dying... But then I bought a support to use my pro controller with the tablet, and while the weight increased to steam deck levels, the comfort got a lot better, to the point I could finish the battery in one play session. Better grip and ergonomics make a huge difference in how we feel the weight.

There are other things (like hall sensor), but others have already pointed that out. I think that's all for me
 
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Nvidia confirms T239 is like saying water is wet at this point. The far more interesting bit, is the one about 8 cpu cores.

I haven’t actually listened to it, so I don’t know if they discuss that part.
Nate mentioned that T239's linked to the NVN2 leaks. And that the only takeaway from the Linux kernel is that T239 has 8 CPU cores per cluster. Nate said that he had conservations with individuals asking is there any direct link to the Nintendo Switch (I assume Nate meant Nintendo's new hardware here) mentioned in the NVN2 leaks (with T239), with the answer being no. And Nate thinks that outside of confirming T239 has 8 CPU cores per cluster, the Linux kernel means nothing to him.

MVG said that outside of confirming T239 has 8 CPU cores per cluster, and that Nvidia added T239 support to the Linux kernel, there's nothing of note in the Linux kernel. MVG said that Nvidia adding T239 support to the Linux kernel could mean that Nvidia's simply began to test T239 now and spending at least a year to fix bugs. And MVG mentioned that although T239 could be Nintendo related, T239 could also be related to a NDA project nobody knows about. MVG said that if there's a Nintendo email address in the Linux kernel, then he could say T239 could be related to Nintendo's new hardware. But since there's only a Nvidia email address in the Linux kernel, T239 isn't necessarily linked to the Nintendo Switch (I assume MVG meant Nintendo's new hardware).

And Nate and MVG said that T239 being in the Linux kernel doesn't confirm T239's in production.
 
Nate mentioned that T239's linked to the NVN2 leaks. And that the only takeaway from the Linux kernel is that T239 has 8 CPU cores per cluster. Nate said that he had conservations with individuals asking is there any direct link to the Nintendo Switch (I assume Nate meant Nintendo's new hardware here) mentioned in the NVN2 leaks (with T239), with the answer being no. And Nate thinks that outside of confirming T239 has 8 CPU cores per cluster, the Linux kernel means nothing to him.

MVG said that outside of confirming T239 has 8 CPU cores per cluster, and that Nvidia added T239 support to the Linux kernel, there's nothing of note in the Linux kernel. MVG said that Nvidia adding T239 support to the Linux kernel could mean that Nvidia's simply began to test T239 now and spending at least a year to fix bugs. And MVG mentioned that although T239 could be Nintendo related, T239 could also be related to a NDA project nobody knows about. MVG said that if there's a Nintendo email address in the Linux kernel, then he could say T239 could be related to Nintendo's new hardware. But since there's only a Nvidia email address in the Linux kernel, T239 isn't necessarily linked to the Nintendo Switch (I assume MVG meant Nintendo's new hardware).

And Nate and MVG said that T239 being in the Linux kernel doesn't confirm T239's in production.
So he's acknowledging that it's tied to NVN2 but doesn't think that means it's in any way tied to Nintendo. I guess similar to the way T234 is mentioned in the NVN2 leak?

But I'd argue that also ties T234 to Nintendo... In that early devkits likely used T234 AKA Orin.
 
Alright folks, give it to me in terms any Nintendo fan would understand. How many Gamecubes duck taped together is the power of this new device? We talking about 4 Gamecubes? 8 Gamecubes? 64?! And what grand brand of tape is holding all of this power together?
 
Alright folks, give it to me in terms any Nintendo fan would understand. How many Gamecubes duck taped together is the power of this new device? We talking about 4 Gamecubes? 8 Gamecubes? 64?! And what grand brand of tape is holding all of this power together?
Several hundred.
 
Depends entirely on the rumors of Red Dead Redemption 2 are real. If its coming to Switch (or just Drake) then I can see GTAV for Switch/Drake.

But aren’t both games on their last legs? Hang R stopped supporting online mode for both games over GTAVI?
GTAO no. RDO yes.
Allegedly R* didn’t bring over GTAV due to Nintendo’s online. Suggesting that unless they decouple GTAO from GTAV, thus making them singular products, GTAV isn’t making its way over. Though if they are focusing on GTA6 then I could see GTAV coming over in place of GTA6 because they don’t care about the product anymore.
 
Nate mentioned that T239's linked to the NVN2 leaks. And that the only takeaway from the Linux kernel is that T239 has 8 CPU cores per cluster. Nate said that he had conservations with individuals asking is there any direct link to the Nintendo Switch (I assume Nate meant Nintendo's new hardware here) mentioned in the NVN2 leaks (with T239), with the answer being no. And Nate thinks that outside of confirming T239 has 8 CPU cores per cluster, the Linux kernel means nothing to him.

MVG said that outside of confirming T239 has 8 CPU cores per cluster, and that Nvidia added T239 support to the Linux kernel, there's nothing of note in the Linux kernel. MVG said that Nvidia adding T239 support to the Linux kernel could mean that Nvidia's simply began to test T239 now and spending at least a year to fix bugs. And MVG mentioned that although T239 could be Nintendo related, T239 could also be related to a NDA project nobody knows about. MVG said that if there's a Nintendo email address in the Linux kernel, then he could say T239 could be related to Nintendo's new hardware. But since there's only a Nvidia email address in the Linux kernel, T239 isn't necessarily linked to the Nintendo Switch (I assume MVG meant Nintendo's new hardware).

And Nate and MVG said that T239 being in the Linux kernel doesn't confirm T239's in production.
I have to assume it's the things they know that lead them to dismiss it. Because on paper it's juicy, but if their info don't line up with it I can see them not caring.
 
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As far as I know kopite is the only source saying T239 = Nintendo? And he's got a pretty good track record ?

Other than the Nvidia leak which has a mention of T239.
 
Nate mentioned that T239's linked to the NVN2 leaks. And that the only takeaway from the Linux kernel is that T239 has 8 CPU cores per cluster. Nate said that he had conservations with individuals asking is there any direct link to the Nintendo Switch (I assume Nate meant Nintendo's new hardware here) mentioned in the NVN2 leaks (with T239), with the answer being no. And Nate thinks that outside of confirming T239 has 8 CPU cores per cluster, the Linux kernel means nothing to him.

MVG said that outside of confirming T239 has 8 CPU cores per cluster, and that Nvidia added T239 support to the Linux kernel, there's nothing of note in the Linux kernel. MVG said that Nvidia adding T239 support to the Linux kernel could mean that Nvidia's simply began to test T239 now and spending at least a year to fix bugs. And MVG mentioned that although T239 could be Nintendo related, T239 could also be related to a NDA project nobody knows about. MVG said that if there's a Nintendo email address in the Linux kernel, then he could say T239 could be related to Nintendo's new hardware. But since there's only a Nvidia email address in the Linux kernel, T239 isn't necessarily linked to the Nintendo Switch (I assume MVG meant Nintendo's new hardware).

And Nate and MVG said that T239 being in the Linux kernel doesn't confirm T239's in production.

He did preface that by saying that he was going to view this Linux thing in a vacuum, so when he mentions that he talked to individuals about there being "any direct link to the switch mentioned in this specific file?" he's only talking about the Linux thing, not the Nvidia leak. Pretty carefully worded question. And strictly speaking, there was no "direct link" to the Switch mentioned in the file. I mean, dots were connected in this thread from it, but not everyone here would argue that's a "direct link".

All I know for sure is they're not in the habit of making assumptions, and there have been a few made in this thread (and probably many many more - and of the ironclad variety - made outside of it). So they're just throwing some cold water on that and telling people to hold their horses a bit.
 
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GTAO no. RDO yes.
Allegedly R* didn’t bring over GTAV due to Nintendo’s online. Suggesting that unless they decouple GTAO from GTAV, thus making them singular products, GTAV isn’t making its way over. Though if they are focusing on GTA6 then I could see GTAV coming over in place of GTA6 because they don’t care about the product anymore.
they already decoupled GTAO from GTA5

MVG said that outside of confirming T239 has 8 CPU cores per cluster, and that Nvidia added T239 support to the Linux kernel, there's nothing of note in the Linux kernel. MVG said that Nvidia adding T239 support to the Linux kernel could mean that Nvidia's simply began to test T239 now and spending at least a year to fix bugs. And MVG mentioned that although T239 could be Nintendo related, T239 could also be related to a NDA project nobody knows about. MVG said that if there's a Nintendo email address in the Linux kernel, then he could say T239 could be related to Nintendo's new hardware. But since there's only a Nvidia email address in the Linux kernel, T239 isn't necessarily linked to the Nintendo Switch (I assume MVG meant Nintendo's new hardware).
feels like he's reaching IMO. yea there's a non-zero chance for the T239 to not be nintendo related, but there are three Orin products for those groups. who could realistically be in the position to order a custom ARM/Nvidia SoC?
 
feels like he's reaching IMO. yea there's a non-zero chance for the T239 to not be nintendo related, but there are three Orin products for those groups. who could realistically be in the position to order a custom ARM/Nvidia SoC?
I hear you but at the same time, maybe it’s just me, but it is a little concerning to hear him say T239 may not be Nintendo. I mean, he’s heard about this device more than any of us. It’s hard not to worry he may have reasons for doubting.

On that note, if the new hardware was NOT T239, hypothetically speaking….does that not allow us to resolve previous comments that were made on Era by other insiders?

All these are over a year old by now, but someone said it’s primarily for “resolution and framerate improvements.” Another said it’s “neat.” (That may have been the MS guy that rarely posted? Matt or something? Can never remember his name.)

It’s hard to believe they were hearing about this device even earlier in dev and only coming away with that. I can’t remember if Nate ever commented way in the past on its capability. Did he or someone ever say it was a “modest” upgrade?

But lastly, on the other hand, Nate has said Pro or 2 is up to Nintendo’s marketing. So if marketing it as a successor is an option in his mind based on what he’s heard, then he must know/be expecting a decent bump?
 
they already decoupled GTAO from GTA5


feels like he's reaching IMO. yea there's a non-zero chance for the T239 to not be nintendo related, but there are three Orin products for those groups. who could realistically be in the position to order a custom ARM/Nvidia SoC?
That’s good to know. I haven’t been keeping up because it’s been so busy this month.
 
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Alright folks, give it to me in terms any Nintendo fan would understand. How many Gamecubes duck taped together is the power of this new device? We talking about 4 Gamecubes? 8 Gamecubes? 64?! And what grand brand of tape is holding all of this power together?

I got you, fam.

Wii = 2 Gamecubes
Wii U = 4 Gamecubes
Switch = 7 Gamecubes
Switch Drake = 42 Gamecubes

Well, that's quite a jump, people! Get excited.
 
I got you, fam.

Wii = 2 Gamecubes
Wii U = 4 Gamecubes
Switch = 7 Gamecubes
Switch Drake = 42 Gamecubes

Well, that's quite a jump, people! Get excited.
Nah Wii U was more like 20 GameCubes, Switch probably 30-35 GameCubes, Drake like 300-350 GameCubes
 
I hear you but at the same time, maybe it’s just me, but it is a little concerning to hear him say T239 may not be Nintendo. I mean, he’s heard about this device more than any of us. It’s hard not to worry he may have reasons for doubting.

On that note, if the new hardware was NOT T239, hypothetically speaking….does that not allow us to resolve previous comments that were made on Era by other insiders?

All these are over a year old by now, but someone said it’s primarily for “resolution and framerate improvements.” Another said it’s “neat.” (That may have been the MS guy that rarely posted? Matt or something? Can never remember his name.)

It’s hard to believe they were hearing about this device even earlier in dev and only coming away with that. I can’t remember if Nate ever commented way in the past on its capability. Did he or someone ever say it was a “modest” upgrade?

But lastly, on the other hand, Nate has said Pro or 2 is up to Nintendo’s marketing. So if marketing it as a successor is an option in his mind based on what he’s heard, then he must know/be expecting a decent bump?
There are only so many chips, even custom, that Nvidia can provide Nintendo. If it’s not T239 then everyone is back to square one. You don’t talk about dlss if it’s not this chip for instance unless Nintendo is shooting the moon w/dlss 3.0.
 
Nah Wii U was more like 20 GameCubes, Switch probably 30-35 GameCubes, Drake like 300-350 GameCubes
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There are only so many chips, even custom, that Nvidia can provide Nintendo. If it’s not T239 then everyone is back to square one. You don’t talk about dlss if it’s not this chip for instance unless Nintendo is shooting the moon w/dlss 3.0.
Yeah I know you’re right. Just hard not to entertain because he’s obviously solid for this stuff.

Mainly I’m just extremely curious to know what the DLSS Switch is in his mind (based on his info and/or speculation). What kind of a jump he’s expecting.
 
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Right now it seems like that podcast topic is just designed to manufacture outrage and confusion. It's just a waste of time to listen to now with kopitekimi's old tweet and the NVN2 leak. It's a shame because I normally enjoy listening to Nate's podcast.
 
Yeah uhhh... this one is odd. T239 was not only claimed in 2021 by Kopite, who is rarely wrong about anything, to be the chip Nintendo is using. It was also expressly referred to in the NVN2 API along with references to an NX platform.

It would take some very very odd coincidences with acronyms and extremely reliable people being wrong for T239 not to be related to Nintendo.
Was I the only one that didn't expect anything different from this podcast? remember that (allegedly) MVG is under NDA so there's no way they'll ever say anything like "yeah this is the real deal".
 
I hear you but at the same time, maybe it’s just me, but it is a little concerning to hear him say T239 may not be Nintendo. I mean, he’s heard about this device more than any of us. It’s hard not to worry he may have reasons for doubting.

On that note, if the new hardware was NOT T239, hypothetically speaking….does that not allow us to resolve previous comments that were made on Era by other insiders?

All these are over a year old by now, but someone said it’s primarily for “resolution and framerate improvements.” Another said it’s “neat.” (That may have been the MS guy that rarely posted? Matt or something? Can never remember his name.)

It’s hard to believe they were hearing about this device even earlier in dev and only coming away with that. I can’t remember if Nate ever commented way in the past on its capability. Did he or someone ever say it was a “modest” upgrade?

But lastly, on the other hand, Nate has said Pro or 2 is up to Nintendo’s marketing. So if marketing it as a successor is an option in his mind based on what he’s heard, then he must know/be expecting a decent bump?
really hard to say because a lot of those comments aren't anything really solid. maybe the "resolution and framerate improvements", but again, there's no range to that. 4K and 60fps is a huge-ass end of that range that only the T239 can realistically provide in the first place.
 
really hard to say because a lot of those comments aren't anything really solid. maybe the "resolution and framerate improvements", but again, there's no range to that. 4K and 60fps is a huge-ass end of that range that only the T239 can realistically provide in the first place.
That’s very true.
 
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Another said it’s “neat.” (That may have been the MS guy that rarely posted? Matt or something? Can never remember his name.)
Matt did say "very neat" in a thread about Bloomberg's report of a 4K DLSS-enabled Switch.

Take that as you will.
 
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Nate mentioned that T239's linked to the NVN2 leaks. And that the only takeaway from the Linux kernel is that T239 has 8 CPU cores per cluster. Nate said that he had conservations with individuals asking is there any direct link to the Nintendo Switch (I assume Nate meant Nintendo's new hardware here) mentioned in the NVN2 leaks (with T239), with the answer being no. And Nate thinks that outside of confirming T239 has 8 CPU cores per cluster, the Linux kernel means nothing to him.

MVG said that outside of confirming T239 has 8 CPU cores per cluster, and that Nvidia added T239 support to the Linux kernel, there's nothing of note in the Linux kernel. MVG said that Nvidia adding T239 support to the Linux kernel could mean that Nvidia's simply began to test T239 now and spending at least a year to fix bugs. And MVG mentioned that although T239 could be Nintendo related, T239 could also be related to a NDA project nobody knows about. MVG said that if there's a Nintendo email address in the Linux kernel, then he could say T239 could be related to Nintendo's new hardware. But since there's only a Nvidia email address in the Linux kernel, T239 isn't necessarily linked to the Nintendo Switch (I assume MVG meant Nintendo's new hardware).

And Nate and MVG said that T239 being in the Linux kernel doesn't confirm T239's in production.
I cannot.
After listening to your podcast Nate, I think you got this very wrong. I understand that you might not want to out right confirm T239 is for a Switch successor without one of your sources confirming it for you, but downplaying the evidence for T239, by discussing this "in a vacuum" is misleading others.

Thing is, if T239 isn't Switch "2", you are just flat wrong about a first half release next year, there is no other chip in NVN2 as of 6 months ago that could be used for it, thus no games that you claim are targeting 1h next year, could actually be. There is no hardware other than T239 that could be used for development via the new API. That is a red flag if T239 weren't the chip.

The evidence for it is actually a proverbial mountain.
-Kopite7 confirming this chip is for Nintendo before we could even confirm it's existence in spring last year.
-Finding it in the Nvidia hack, and where was it? Inside custom API NVN2 which is literally stated by Nvidia that NVN was made to take advantage of Switch.
-This info from oldpuck which includes the tidbit that Engineering samples of T239 have seemed to exist since April, and linux support has been going on much longer via Orin.
Linux updates:

I've been going through the Linux updates that Nvidia has been dropping (since August!) for Drake. I've not been posting them since they are, for the most part, not interesting, but it's now come up enough times I thought I'd write it up.

Real short - there are places where Drake uses a generic Tegra support for a feature, or where it uses a "T23x" support that it shares with Orin, or it uses the Orin support directly, or where it loads in its own specialized T239 support. Specialized support doesn't mean that features work differently - it could be something as simple as "This ASIC lives on a different physical part of the chip". Things of note

The OFA Driver: This has become relevant in the wake DLSS 3.0 and Lovelace's enhanced OFA. The OFA driver is identical for Orin and Drake.
Falcon/TSEC: FAst Logic CONtroller, used in lots of things. Drake's seems to be different from Orin. A Falcon is used in TSEC, the Tegra Security Coprocessor in the X1, which accelerates cryptography and is part of the secure OS boot process that prevents the Switch from being jailbroken

Memory Controllers: Drake has half of Orin's MC channels, 8 instead of 16.

USB: T239 supports only three USB2/USB3 ports (Orin has 4, at least in these drivers)

Interesting Timing Bits: Drake Linux was being developed on software simulation in January of last year. In April, there were a set of Drake related updates that seem to indicate that actual engineering samples were being produced. In July, the code was branched to consolidate Orin changes for public release so that Drake work could continue. Any further references to Drake in the various public repos since are entirely updates to places where Drake share's Orin's driver, but needs a Drake specific exception (like the cpu-freq updates). This is likely so that there is a One True Source for Orin drivers and Drake dev can simply pull it from upstream, rather than maintaining multiple forks at Nvidia that are constantly cross merging.
-Orin doesn't have RT support but NVN2 does support RT, T239 does.
-NVN2 is also designed for Ampere specifically stated in NVN2 that this is the architecture recommended for the API.
-Drake being in a public branch of Linux SoC, suggests a completed chip was produced physically, as there is no need for a public linux kernal update for Drake specifically, unless it is used alongside an OS. It might not be in mass production, but it's physical development cycle is complete and can be in mass production.
-Nvidia doesn't have a valid placement for T239 in their Tegra stack, Orin is the entire public Tegra stack, fitting all power ranges, historical sale points and no future point in the roadmap for T239, it's a custom chip, for a partner.

I get that you haven't had updates from any sources about new Switch hardware, but these leaks, hacks and public information, now point to continued work on a "Switch successor". It does fit the timeline and our NVN2 info is only 7 months old at this point, with the public linux info proving that the chip is still currently relevant as of 19 days ago, providing evidence that the work for this chip is on going.

It's not canceled yet Nate, it's delay is a possibility, but if they plan to release a Switch successor in 2023, they won't do that without Zelda. Hope this clears up the situation for you and everyone here who might have listened to your podcast.
 
He did preface that by saying that he was going to view this Linux thing in a vacuum, so when he mentions that he talked to individuals about there being "any direct link to the switch mentioned in this specific file?" he's only talking about the Linux thing, not the Nvidia leak. Pretty carefully worded question. And strictly speaking, there was no "direct link" to the Switch mentioned in the file. I mean, dots were connected in this thread from it, but not everyone here would argue that's a "direct link".

All I know for sure is they're not in the habit of making assumptions, and there have been a few made in this thread (and probably many many more - and of the ironclad variety - made outside of it). So they're just throwing some cold water on that and telling people to hold their horses a bit.
I also interpreted the whole conversation as to what the Linux kernel update means, not assumptions about the SoC. That he asked around and the consensus was that the Linux kernel commit didn't mean much other than confirming the T239 has 8 cores per cluster, which might or might not have a relation to the Switch. It doesn't mean the Switch Pro is about to get into mass production or anything like that.
 
I also interpreted the whole conversation as to what the Linux kernel update means, not assumptions about the SoC. That he asked around and the consensus was that the Linux kernel commit didn't mean much other than confirming the T239 has a 8 core cluster, which might or might not have a relation to the Switch. It doesn't mean the Switch Pro is about to get into mass production or anything like that.
Interesting, that would make sense, I was kind of running off a comment earlier that summarized the show saying they weren’t confident T329 = Nintendo. Maybe they didn’t quite say it like that.

I recognize I should probably listen to it myself, just haven’t been able to yet. So if there’s egg on my face I deserve it 😂
 
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I got you, fam.

Wii = 2 Gamecubes
Wii U = 4 Gamecubes
Switch = 7 Gamecubes
Switch Drake = 42 Gamecubes

Well, that's quite a jump, people! Get excited.
The Wii U was like 20 GameCubes

Switch is like 25-48 GameCubes (portable and docked)

Drake would be like 260-600 GameCubes (portable and docked with optimism)
 
The Wii U was like 20 GameCubes

Switch is like 25-48 GameCubes (portable and docked)

Drake would be like 260-600 GameCubes (portable and docked with optimism)
Wii was 1.5 gamecubes literally
Wii U was about 10x the Wii, so ~15 gamecubes
Switch docked is about 60 gamecubes (about 4x the Wii U)
Switch "2" portable is 3 to 4 times Switch docked (depending on clock) + DLSS 2.2+ which about doubles GPU performance, so 180-240 Gamecubes +DLSS
Switch "2" docked is 6 to 10 times Switch docked (depending on clock) + DLSS 2.2+, so 360 to 600 gamecubes +DLSS
 
Wii was 1.5 gamecubes literally
Wii U was about 10x the Wii, so ~15 gamecubes
Switch docked is about 60 gamecubes (about 4x the Wii U)
Switch "2" portable is 3 to 4 times Switch docked (depending on clock) + DLSS 2.2+ which about doubles GPU performance, so 180-240 Gamecubes +DLSS
Switch "2" docked is 6 to 10 times Switch docked (depending on clock) + DLSS 2.2+, so 360 to 600 gamecubes +DLSS
I’m using the “in practice” numbers and I’m not including DLSS so this is before, because the GPUin the game cube is so ancient that anything that’s a newer will literally do anything the GameCube does with far less resources. Far more efficient at doing the same job. That’s why I put the Wii U at 20 rather than 15 or 16. I’m not using the flops because that doesn’t really help. Though I was being more reserved with those numbers but with Drake I was being more optimistic.


If it were actual, Wii U is like 20-30x, Switch is like 40-65x, Drake (with its 2020 GPU) would be more like 450-800x, and with DLSS double that (at most)



Better architecture> flops


Except the Wii U, it was a flop regardless 🤭
 
There's only one way to settle this how many gamecubes is a switch discussion once and for all.

I'll start the gofundme for us to buy 600 game cubes and tape. I assume we need electrical tape so the gamecubes link up properly. That's how it works right?
 
It’s hard to believe they were hearing about this device even earlier in dev and only coming away with that. I can’t remember if Nate ever commented way in the past on its capability. Did he or someone ever say it was a “modest” upgrade?
Nate's main comment on its capability has always been DLSS capability (and what it implies). He's also occasionally mentioned A78, IIRC. So if there were comments about a 'modest' upgrade, they're not from Nate.
 
Weird podcast from Nate this time, as he usually says he won't comment on Switch Pro as there is nothing new to say.
Now he comments on it in a way that I think should mainly say "don't speculate", bit at the same time he is speculating as well, so it causes a lot of confusion.
I think he would have been better of not to cover this topic to avoid harassment from less informed listeners as it does not really give new insights.
 
Speaking of duct taping, what clocks are needed to get Drake to land in the ballpark of three PS4s?
CPU's easy enough; I'm feeling 1.6 Ghz (matching the core count and clock) could do it. For some workloads, A78 should hit triple the Jaguar's IPC, and that's the 3x right there. And of course, clocks can be pushed a bit higher if we want to cover more workloads.
I'm blanking on what's needed for the GPU though.

And why I am asking about three Playstation Four's? Change the Four to something like, I dunno, Fource or something... and when taping them together, they could be arranged in like, a triangle, I guess?
 
Nate is correct that it alone does not imply mass production has started for a launch next spring. Not that it isn’t launching then. Which is fair because Mochizuki would have had an article out if that were the case.
 
Please read this staff post before posting.

Furthermore, according to this follow-up post, all off-topic chat will be moderated.
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