StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

[Paxie]

mods, can we ban @Raccoon again

(I would legitimately laugh if Nintendo found a way to rationalize this)

No, if anything he's thinking too small. Team CalcioIsReal baby!

 

[Derachi]

Staff Communication

It has come to our attention that, in recent weeks, this thread has gotten incredibly incendiary. Despite multiple staff posts, we have received a number of recent reports about folks’ behaviour in this thread.

Whether or not you agree with them, treat other users with respect. If you find yourself getting heated about a particular topic or person, consider disengaging with the conversation, and if there’s a user you find you’d rather not see or hear from, make use of the “ignore” button. If you do see a user being hostile or toxic, do not hesitate to report them.

This post serves as a line drawn. From here forward we are enacting stricter moderation policies for this thread. This will include posts such as personal attacks, attempts at “gotchas” for previous, incorrect predictions, and any post that is disruptive to this thread’s purpose of discussion of future Nintendo hardware.

Posts that show a clear disregard for these rules will result in, at minimum, a two-week thread ban.

-Derachi, Josh5890, Aurc

 

[Concernt]

nah, just the way he's talked about it

As I said, being a bit harsh to poor Nate. Nobody deserves to be compared to John in that moment.

 

[Raccoon]

As I said, being a bit harsh to poor Nate. Nobody deserves to be compared to John Pizzawheels.

haha yeah that's fair

40 pizzas in 30 days...

 

[Concernt]

haha yeah that's fair

40 pizzas in 30 days...

40 Nintendo Switch processors cancelled in 30 days. The horror.

Edit: Oh dear, it looks like we've gotten ourselves a second staff communication button for this thread specifically. I feel sorry for the mods that have had to handle this thread, at least a bit. I'll probably ease off on the jokes like "40 cancellations" and "octopus dance?" on this thread.

 

[Eclissi]

You can put the user in question on ignore, you wouldn’t really see their posts or the replies that much.

That I’ve noticed…

True, but I don't want to ignore Nate, because he's been pretty reliable on other subjects. I'm just saying that THIS thread has gone a little further in the hype towards his words (also the fault of all of us).

 

[kalosmani]

I'm gonna put in my 2 cents and predict what I think, keep in mind I have no kept up with leaks as much as some of the guys in here.

1. I think Switch Pro was the initially the Mariko Switch (Switch OLED), but instead of a battery life boost there was a clock speed boost for developers to take advantage of. Nintendo could have cancelled the clock boost in the last minute and just go with better battery instead (use chip efficiency instead of clocking it up).

2. I think Switch is either releasing with Zelda this May (with an announcement due end of this month) or this November (with an announcement due around end of June).

3. I think Switch 2 will have the exact same form factor as OLED Switch, will be backwards compatible with old Joycons and Switch 1 games. So whatever power you can fit in a Switch OLED sized system is all you will be getting (I'll let the technical people determine whats possible in that form factor) if I had to guess Xbox One graphics with Switch V1 battery life. A form factor any bigger is not feasible as Switch is aimed at kids market and family market too, this isn't the Steam Deck.

4. Switch 2 will have an added gimmick to diffentiate itself from Switch 1. I'm going to take a wild guess and say a digital pen similar to Samsung and Apple tablets. The pen can be stored underneath the kickstand. This would allow Nintendo to bring games like Nintendo's, Brain Age, Kirby Canvas Curse and etc to the Switch 2. This also allows DS and 3DS emulation. In terms of other features I think Joycons will be upgraded to include full sized analog sticks and well as analog triggers.

5. I think Nintendo will barely push exclusives for Switch 2 for a while (a few here and there) and instead rely on 3rd parties to release Switch 2 only games from porting PS4 games. E.g Diablo 4, Street Fighter 6

 

[Concernt]

I'm gonna put in my 2 cents and predict what I think, keep in mind I have no kept up with leaks as much as some of the guys in here.

1. I think Switch Pro was the initially the Mariko Switch (Switch OLED), but instead of a battery life boost there was a clock speed boost for developers to take advantage of. Nintendo could have cancelled the clock boost in the last minute and just go with better battery instead (use chip efficiency instead of clocking it up).

2. I think Switch is either releasing with Zelda this May (with an announcement due end of this month) or this November (with an announcement due around end of June).

3. I think Switch 2 will have the exact same form factor as OLED Switch, will be backwards compatible with old Joycons and Switch 1 games. So whatever power you can fit in a Switch OLED sized system is all you will be getting (I'll let the technical people determine whats possible in that form factor) if I had to guess Xbox One graphics with Switch V1 battery life. A form factor any bigger is not feasible as Switch is aimed at kids market and family market too, this isn't the Steam Deck.

4. Switch 2 will have an added gimmick to diffentiate itself from Switch 1. I'm going to take a wild guess and say a digital pen similar to Samsung and Apple tablets. The pen can be stored underneath the kickstand. This would allow Nintendo to bring games like Nintendo's, Brain Age, Kirby Canvas Curse and etc to the Switch 2. This also allows DS and 3DS emulation. In terms of other features I think Joycons will be upgraded to include full sized analog sticks and well as analog triggers.

5. I think Nintendo will barely push exclusives for Switch 2 for a while (a few here and there) and instead rely on 3rd parties to release Switch 2 only games from porting PS4 games. E.g Diablo 4, Street Fighter 6

OLED Model's kickstand as it exists now was only possible due to a die shrink and board redesign that made the guts of the console much smaller to make room for the hinges. A higher clock Mariko chip would have needed a bigger cooling system, not a smaller one, at least I'm guessing. OLED Model was built around the die shrunk chip from the get go according to Nintendo, so I have my doubts it was meant to be a "Pro" model. Maybe the V2 was, at one stage?

As for the next generation, you face the same size constraints with the OLED Model's design, which is why I think it'll be redesigned significantly to allow for more cooling and more internal space by moving the hinges as close to the top edge of the console as they can.

I agree that they probably won't want to change the size much if at all, certainly not make it bigger.

 

[chocolate_supra]

I wanna order the mods on this thread 40 pizzas to show my appreciation for what they have to deal with

 

[kalosmani]

OLED Model's kickstand as it exists now was only possible due to a die shrink and board redesign that made the guts of the console much smaller to make room for the hinges. A higher clock Mariko chip would have needed a bigger cooling system, not a smaller one, at least I'm guessing. OLED Model was built around the die shrunk chip from the get go according to Nintendo, so I have my doubts it was meant to be a "Pro" model. Maybe the V2 was, at one stage?

As for the next generation, you face the same size constraints with the OLED Model's design, which is why I think it'll be redesigned significantly to allow for more cooling and more internal space by moving the hinges as close to the top edge of the console as they can.

I agree that they probably won't want to change the size much if at all, certainly not make it bigger.

When I said same form factor I meant same size. Any redesigns to create more intenal space is possible. E.g a better kickstand design that doesn't take much space internally.

 

[Pokemaniac]

ROM cards are non volatile memory (NVM), from what I am finding they are cheaper than volatile memory like a SD card.

Difference between Volatile Memory and Non-Volatile Memory - GeeksforGeeks

A Computer Science portal for geeks. It contains well written, well thought and well explained computer science and programming articles, quizzes and practice/competitive programming/company interview Questions.

www.geeksforgeeks.org

That's not what those words mean. Volatile memory is memory that can only hold data while powered (like most RAM), while non-volatile memory will survive a power loss. Both ROM and Flash are forms of non-volatile memory.

The actual difference between a game card and an SD card is that a game card is designed to be written to once during manufacturing and has extra measures in place to ensure the longevity of the data, while an SD card can be rewritten many times by the user. Otherwise they're relatively closely related technologies, though I think SD cards tend to include the controller on the card, while I believe Switch game cards are basically pure memory that's accessed by a controller (with its own updatable firmware) on the Switch motherboard.

 

[NintenDuvo]

That’s for this quarter, the one that starts January and ends in March (it’s their 4th quarter).

And the end of the Fiscal Year.

So when will they discuss plans for the next fiscal year?

 

[Concernt]

When I said same form factor I meant same size. Any redesigns to create more intenal space is possible. E.g a better kickstand design that doesn't take much space internally.

Oh, then we entirely agree, yeah.

I expect the kickstand to be slimmer with the hinges moved right up to the edge, and some more vents. Basically OLED Model vents at the bottom and Switch Lite vents above the kickstand indent. It would look cool, give it plenty of airflow, and they know those designs work.

 

[Pokemaniac]

OLED Model's kickstand as it exists now was only possible due to a die shrink and board redesign that made the guts of the console much smaller to make room for the hinges. A higher clock Mariko chip would have needed a bigger cooling system, not a smaller one, at least I'm guessing. OLED Model was built around the die shrunk chip from the get go according to Nintendo, so I have my doubts it was meant to be a "Pro" model. Maybe the V2 was, at one stage?

As for the next generation, you face the same size constraints with the OLED Model's design, which is why I think it'll be redesigned significantly to allow for more cooling and more internal space by moving the hinges as close to the top edge of the console as they can.

I agree that they probably won't want to change the size much if at all, certainly not make it bigger.

This is just speculation, but I get the sense that both the red box Switch and Switch OLED contain ideas that Nintendo intended to pursue in a scrapped "Switch Pro" model, with the red box Switch probably only existing to meet the "get off of Erista" deadline.

 

[ILikeFeet]

Wait, are Game Cards really more expensive than SD cards? Weren't they designed to be super cheap to produce so that they can function as a mass produced entertainment distribution media? What makes them more expensive?

probably their exclusivity. they're Macronix's xtra rom, if I remember correctly and aren't really used anywhere else. it's been said that an 8GB switch cart costs as much as a 50GB bluray. I wouldn't call that cheap

 

[kalosmani]

To me it seems the best solution is mandatory installation of games and Nintendo to provide a larger internal drive, perhaps even a SSD. Games come in 16-32gb cartridges and installed to a 500GB SSD, the compression technology maybe able to double or even triple the size of the game data when installed from the cartridge.

 

[ILikeFeet]

To me it seems the best solution is mandatory installation of games and Nintendo to provide a larger internal drive, perhaps even a SSD. Games come in 16-32gb cartridges and installed to a 500GB SSD, the compression technology maybe able to double or even triple the size of the game data when installed from the cartridge.

if by ssd you mean UFS3.x then sure, that's doable

 

[Instro]

So when will they discuss plans for the next fiscal year?

Nintendo's FY earnings, and the briefing for the new FY, typically happen in late April or early May. So that's where you would get your forecast and plans.

 

[Red Monster]

I wanna order the mods on this thread 40 pizzas to show my appreciation for what they have to deal with

You have my attention

 

[Concernt]

probably their exclusivity. they're Macronix's xtra rom, if I remember correctly and aren't really used anywhere else. it's been said that an 8GB switch cart costs as much as a 50GB bluray. I wouldn't call that cheap

A 50GB Blu-ray is extremely cheap to produce, so that would line up with the price I'd expect for Game Cards. It's a microchip they can produce for the price of a stamped plastic disk, that's impressively cheap!

 

[Raccoon]

pissing and shitting my pants begging for pcie storage i/o

 

[kalosmani]

A 50GB Blu-ray is extremely cheap to produce, so that would line up with the price I'd expect for Game Cards. It's a microchip they can produce for the price of a stamped plastic disk, that's impressively cheap!

I seriously doubt a 64gb cart will be anywhere close to a price of a Blu-ray. And there are a ton of games from Xbox One PS4 generation where games are larger than 30gb.

 

[Concernt]

pissing and shitting my pants begging for pcie storage i/o

eUFS and UFS card are more than enough for internal and expandable storage, but the Game Card is an open question as to whether they'll speed it up much, if at all. If so, maybe that uses PCIe?

 

[Concernt]

I seriously doubt a 64gb cart will be anywhere close to a price of a Blu-ray. And there are a ton of games from Xbox One PS4 generation where games are larger than 30gb.

I didn't say it was, and PS4 games are a bad point of comparison, as Drake would have a much more capable CPU for on the fly decompression, as well as its dedicated FDE, and doesn't need to have any copies of any assets like games designed for spinning harddrives.

 

[NintendoPrime]

OLED Model's kickstand as it exists now was only possible due to a die shrink and board redesign that made the guts of the console much smaller to make room for the hinges. A higher clock Mariko chip would have needed a bigger cooling system, not a smaller one, at least I'm guessing. OLED Model was built around the die shrunk chip from the get go according to Nintendo, so I have my doubts it was meant to be a "Pro" model. Maybe the V2 was, at one stage?

As for the next generation, you face the same size constraints with the OLED Model's design, which is why I think it'll be redesigned significantly to allow for more cooling and more internal space by moving the hinges as close to the top edge of the console as they can.

I agree that they probably won't want to change the size much if at all, certainly not make it bigger.

obviously we don't know exactly what may or may not have been in a more powerful system - we have tons of speculation and guesswork all over this thread from the nvidia leaks and Kopkite (I think that's how it's spelled), and I think all the speculation and discussion has been valid. One thing I did want to briefly touch on though is the idea that the OLED's kickstand couldn't happen without a die shrink/board redesign.

I do agree the original Switch as it was designed internally did not inherently allow for the current kickstand design. I don't agree however that it was never designed around "new hardware" that needs a "bigger cooling system". I have always felt how Switch handles cooling (in theory for possible new chips, not the current) to be facinating. We have phones that cost $500 that are more powerful that Switch, smaller, and don't have fans and can consistently run at higher speeds with more ram than the Switch has today. Yet we talk about how we need this massive cooling for a new more powerful chip, when we have plenty of mobile devices who have CLEARLY figured out how to cool chips without having to have such elaborate cooling solutions size wise. Yes, steam deck uses a bigger system, but they are also using a customized version of a chip meant to basically be in gaming laptops - not something that's actually purpose built for a mobile device like a phone or tablet.

I bring this up, because the original Nvidia Shield tablet was very thin compared to the Switch, and the then the X1 Shield that ran at base clocks is almost the same size Switch is today - and yet it's the SWITCH that decided not to run at base clocks. I know, the TV is meant to sit still and not be in your hands, but when signfiicantly more powerful hardware exists on the market beyond this that has sorted out cooling while being held in your hand all day - it feels weird that we create a cooling excuse of needing "more". and thus not having room for the kickstand.

The newer chips are supposed to be more power efficient and possibly even less power hungry - depending on the targeted performance.

The solution has been out there this whole time, but Nintendo would have to understand the value of the slight increased cost versus what it provides to the end product. Vapor chamber cooling.

It's already been suggested many times that if they did this with the original switch it would have never had to throttle clocks. They can literally just use a better cooling solution. It's more expensive, but the increased cost isn't crazy. Maybe an extra $10 per unit. They could find a way to fit that in and still be profitable in a new device. If Nintendo is going to continue to go down this route of hybrids, and they really want performance while keeping a sleek design, this is exactly what they need to be doing from here on out.

 

[Derachi]

I wanna order the mods on this thread 40 pizzas to show my appreciation for what they have to deal with

You need my address? I can DM it to you

Spoiler

I’m joking, but I appreciate the kind words

 

[kalosmani]

I didn't say it was, and PS4 games are a bad point of comparison, as Drake would have a much more capable CPU for on the fly decompression, as well as its dedicated FDE, and doesn't need to have any copies of any assets like games designed for spinning harddrives.

Even then I don't think on the fly decompression will make games under 30GB. To me it makes logical sense for Switch 2 to come with 500gb internal storage. The Xbox One and PS4 came with 500gb as a standard, and Series S does as well. Games are becoming more ambitious and bigger, we have games that are online focused with multiple updates all year round. Games like GTAV are ballooning up to 100GB. If Nintendo include an SSD the installation shouldn't take long and you can still switch cartridges on the fly when swapping games as installation of games is a 1 time process unless you are clearing up space in the instenrla drive to make space for more than 8 large games. They can also use SSD to have instant load times similar to PS5 and Series SX which they can market as a feature.

 

[Concernt]

obviously we don't know exactly what may or may not have been in a more powerful system - we have tons of speculation and guesswork all over this thread from the nvidia leaks and Kopkite (I think that's how it's spelled), and I think all the speculation and discussion has been valid. One thing I did want to briefly touch on though is the idea that the OLED's kickstand couldn't happen without a die shrink/board redesign.

I do agree the original Switch as it was designed internally did not inherently allow for the current kickstand design. I don't agree however that it was never designed around "new hardware" that needs a "bigger cooling system". I have always felt how Switch handles cooling (in theory for possible new chips, not the current) to be facinating. We have phones that cost $500 that are more powerful that Switch, smaller, and don't have fans and can consistently run at higher speeds with more ram than the Switch has today. Yet we talk about how we need this massive cooling for a new more powerful chip, when we have plenty of mobile devices who have CLEARLY figured out how to cool chips without having to have such elaborate cooling solutions size wise. Yes, steam deck uses a bigger system, but they are also using a customized version of a chip meant to basically be in gaming laptops - not something that's actually purpose built for a mobile device like a phone or tablet.

I bring this up, because the original Nvidia Shield tablet was very thin compared to the Switch, and the then the X1 Shield that ran at base clocks is almost the same size Switch is today - and yet it's the SWITCH that decided not to run at base clocks. I know, the TV is meant to sit still and not be in your hands, but when signfiicantly more powerful hardware exists on the market beyond this that has sorted out cooling while being held in your hand all day - it feels weird that we create a cooling excuse of needing "more". and thus not having room for the kickstand.

The newer chips are supposed to be more power efficient and possibly even less power hungry - depending on the targeted performance.

The solution has been out there this whole time, but Nintendo would have to understand the value of the slight increased cost versus what it provides to the end product. Vapor chamber cooling.

It's already been suggested many times that if they did this with the original switch it would have never had to throttle clocks. They can literally just use a better cooling solution. It's more expensive, but the increased cost isn't crazy. Maybe an extra $10 per unit. They could find a way to fit that in and still be profitable in a new device. If Nintendo is going to continue to go down this route of hybrids, and they really want performance while keeping a sleek design, this is exactly what they need to be doing from here on out.

Active cooling has a lot of advantages that a game console can take advantage of that a phone doesn't.

Switch needs to run at its clocks constantly. For hours, perhaps days on end, without throttling, without any variation, without any compromise. Phones can reach high peak clocks but have a tendency to throttle as they run. The highest end gaming phones have built in fans for a reason, even if they ALSO have a vapour chamber. Without an active cooling system it becomes much more difficult to keep clocks STABLE.

This new chip would probably have comparable power consumption to the original Switch, maybe even a little more, and that has to go somewhere. Nothing is perfectly efficient. It's a game console, it doesn't have the luxury of being able to thermal throttle without games chugging or even crashing. Vapour chamber could help but it wouldn't remove the need for active cooling. Even the Lite has a fan, and it's for a reason. Active cooling is affordable, effective, and allows them to pin that stability down without other compromises.

As for the cost of changing cooling systems, I'll quote one of the engineers that worked on the Commodore 128:
"Pennies matter in quantities of a million."

 

[Concernt]

Even then I don't think on the fly decompression will make games under 30GB. To me it makes logical sense for Switch 2 to come with 500gb internal storage. The Xbox One and PS4 came with 500gb as a standard, and Series S does as well. Games are becoming more ambitious and bigger, we have games that are online focused with multiple updates all year round. Games like GTAV are ballooning up to 100GB. If Nintendo include an SSD the installation shouldn't take long and you can still switch cartridges on the fly when swapping games as installation of games is a 1 time process unless you are clearing up space in the instenrla drive to make space for more than 8 large games. They can also use SSD to have instant load times similar to PS5 and Series SX which they can market as a feature.

The Switch has always used solid state storage... I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

 

[kalosmani]

Another prediction from my end I think Nintendo will discontinue the Switch OLED and the premium option will be Switch 2. The limited edition Zelda Switch OLED will be the last Switch OLED, and whatever inventory they have for OLED won't be replenished. Nintendo will continue to support and market Switch V2 and Lite as cheaper alternatives for years to come.

The price brackets will be like this (£ as I'm from UK).
Switch Lite - £180
Switch - £230
Switch 2 - £360

Cross gen games will be happening for years to come with only 3rd parties making real Switch 2 exclusives due to PS4 ports.

The Switch has always used solid state storage... I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

NVME SSD similar to Steam Deck and Series S

 

[Terrell]

Wait, are Game Cards really more expensive than SD cards? Weren't they designed to be super cheap to produce so that they can function as a mass produced entertainment distribution media? What makes them more expensive?

They are, but they’re still ROMs. They’re cheap to produce compared to other ROMs and they have a partner that permits mass production in Macronix, but there’s limits to cost savings by virtue of the technology. The only way to get them substantially cheaper is the same ways SoCs get substantially cheaper, through die shrinks, which means more capacity with less die size. Dakhil and I talked about this briefly before by combing Macronix’s records, and ROMs are still on a planar process node (meaning that when it says XXnm, that actually means what it says), with Switch Game Card chips (ASIC XtraROMs) being produced at anywhere between 32-48nm (and have not been able to conclusively confirm the process node of the XtraROM Nintendo has been ordering), which means Macronix can set up production for Game Cards as low as 28nm (I think?) before they start getting out of planar nodes and into FinFET territory, but they have to start producing them on a smaller node first, and we do not have much in the way of evidence of that happening yet. If Macronix cannot satisfy this need for Nintendo, they could take their business elsewhere (which would be bad for Macronix, since Nintendo is currently one of their largest customers), so the likelihood is that it will happen. The running theory for why it hasn’t happened yet is COVID delays.

ROM cards are non volatile memory (NVM), from what I am finding they are cheaper than volatile memory like a SD card.

Difference between Volatile Memory and Non-Volatile Memory - GeeksforGeeks

A Computer Science portal for geeks. It contains well written, well thought and well explained computer science and programming articles, quizzes and practice/competitive programming/company interview Questions.

www.geeksforgeeks.org

What @Pokemaniac said below, plus additional detail from me.

That's not what those words mean. Volatile memory is memory that can only hold data while powered (like most RAM), while non-volatile memory will survive a power loss. Both ROM and Flash are forms of non-volatile memory.

The actual difference between a game card and an SD card is that a game card is designed to be written to once during manufacturing and has extra measures in place to ensure the longevity of the data, while an SD card can be rewritten many times by the user. Otherwise they're relatively closely related technologies, though I think SD cards tend to include the controller on the card, while I believe Switch game cards are basically pure memory that's accessed by a controller (with its own updatable firmware) on the Switch motherboard.

As well, with NAND Flash, there’s a higher tolerance for faulty parts of the chip, as data can be moved around and reshuffled around those areas because it can actively be re-written and the controller helps to juggle that. ROMs (like what you find in Game Cards) are either fabricated with the data hard-written into the chip (mask ROM) or are designed to only be written to once and never again, so there is a low tolerance for fault and thus are more expensive to produce due to that low threshold for error.

eUFS and UFS card are more than enough for internal and expandable storage, but the Game Card is an open question as to whether they'll speed it up much, if at all. If so, maybe that uses PCIe?

Game Cards, if I understand correctly, use a semi-proprietary 8-bit SPI bus. I’m not sure it’ll use PCIe, but there’s absolutely the means to speed up data transmission from the Game Card (and was likely limited to being similar as the read rate of the eMMC and SD card as a way to save on unnecessary costs and provide greater uniformity in data access times).

 

[Discostew]

Surely games can be compressed.

Games are already compressed. It's one of the reasons for existing loading screens, and why Nintendo added a mode in Switch that drops the GPU clocks and boosts the CPU clocks. The CPU is handling the decompression. The Drake will include FDE, which not only relieves the CPU of the task, but is very likely to handle this much faster. If you're thinking about something like zips within a zip, you're probably thinking that double/triple compression is possible when that is unlikely the case. The point I can see of having zips within a zip is to act like an archive, so that no matter what filesystem is used, it'll access those inner zips the same way.

 

[Josh5890]

I wanna order the mods on this thread 40 pizzas to show my appreciation for what they have to deal with

Pepperoni, no pineapple

 

[NintenDuvo]

Nintendo's FY earnings, and the briefing for the new FY, typically happen in late April or early May. So that's where you would get your forecast and plans.

Yeah I figured that was the time and it's perfect right before E3 and around Totk, if Nintendo still refuses to acknowledge there then holiday 2024 It is

 

[Red Monster]

Pepperoni, no pineapple

You’re no fun. @chocolate_supra i want at least half of those forty pizzas to have pineapple on them

 

[karmitt]

Another prediction from my end I think Nintendo will discontinue the Switch OLED and the premium option will be Switch 2. The limited edition Zelda Switch OLED will be the last Switch OLED, and whatever inventory they have for OLED won't be replenished. Nintendo will continue to support and market Switch V2 and Lite as cheaper alternatives for years to come.

The price brackets will be like this (£ as I'm from UK).
Switch Lite - £180
Switch - £230
Switch 2 - £360

Cross gen games will be happening for years to come with only 3rd parties making real Switch 2 exclusives due to PS4 ports.




NVME SSD similar to Steam Deck and Series S

Why do you expect them to keep the V2 and not the OLED? I assumed the opposite would happen

I also don’t think they need to cut the cost if any of the other devices for a bit longer, just bring the OLED down to the original model price. Assuming a launch sometime this year, I could see end of year pricing looking like:

• Switch 1 Lite $199 USD
• Switch 1 (OLED) $299
• Switch 2 $399

 

[kalosmani]

Why do you expect them to keep the V2 and not the OLED? I assumed the opposite would happen

I also don’t think they need to cut the cost if any of the other devices for a bit longer, just bring the OLED down to the original model price. Assuming a launch sometime this year, I could see end of year pricing looking like:

• Switch 1 Lite $199 USD
• Switch 1 (OLED) $299
• Switch 2 $399

OLED is the Premium option, with Switch 2 that will takeover as the Premium option so there is no need for it. Switch 1 is still viable for budget gamers who want a hybrid as Lite is strictly handheld only. Also no point including 4 SKUs of Switches that's just too many. If one needs to go OLED makes the most sense. I also expect Switch 2 to use the same OLED panel.

 

[kalosmani]

Games are already compressed. It's one of the reasons for existing loading screens, and why Nintendo added a mode in Switch that drops the GPU clocks and boosts the CPU clocks. The CPU is handling the decompression. The Drake will include FDE, which not only relieves the CPU of the task, but is very likely to handle this much faster. If you're thinking about something like zips within a zip, you're probably thinking that double/triple compression is possible when that is unlikely the case. The point I can see of having zips within a zip is to act like an archive, so that no matter what filesystem is used, it'll access those inner zips the same way.

I didn't know the games are alre compressed and if you say Switch 2 can decompress on the fly without taking a performance hit then I guess my idea isn't viable. As long a developers can fit PS4 sized games in a 32GB cart then I guess it's all good. Most AAA games are above 30GB on PS4.

 

[chocolate_supra]

Pepperoni, no pineapple

@chocolate_supra i want at least half of those forty pizzas to have pineapple on them

 

[karmitt]

OLED is the Premium option, with Switch 2 that will takeover as the Premium option so there is no need for it. Switch 1 is still viable for budget gamers who want a hybrid as Lite is strictly handheld only. Also no point including 4 SKUs of Switches that's just too many. If one needs to go OLED makes the most sense. I also expect Switch 2 to use the same OLED panel.

I was thinking reuse of the OLED panels, and perhaps other parts from OLED, would drive them discontinuing production of V2 actually. Could go both ways I guess. OLED being premium today doesn’t stop it from being positioned as a last generation device, less premium than the Switch 2.

 

[kalosmani]

I was thinking reuse of the OLED panels, and perhaps other parts from OLED, would drive them discontinuing production of V2 actually. Could go both ways I guess. OLED being premium today doesn’t stop it from being positioned as a last generation device, less premium than the Switch 2.

Yes but Switch V2 is still cheaper to produce, lower build quality, smaller internal capacity, cheaper LCD screen. I think in a world where Switch 2 is out it just doesn't make sense for someone to want a OLED Switch. Also I think Switch 2 will reuse the OLED panel but that doesn't mean they will have a ton of changes to the overall design while keeping the same shalre. V2 will make sense for someone to want who doesn't care about graphics and just wants to play the latest cross gen Mario and Pokemon and doesn't care about performance.

 

[Hidden04]

This has probably been said and noticed before, but when it comes to Nintendo's next-gen Switch device, it's being kept under lock and key, with small things leaking out once in a while, and being misconstructed through a game of telephone. The info of the cancelled device is probably not Drake, as more outlets would have reported on a device like this being cancelled. So, with that in mind, any info about this device, especially the release date, could be false or outdated. It could be H1 2023, 2024, or even a 2025 release. The important thing here is to use your own judgement on if what insiders or info havers say is true or not. Everyone is wrong sometimes or makes mistakes.

 

[Concernt]

Yes but Switch V2 is still cheaper to produce, lower build quality, smaller internal capacity, cheaper LCD screen. I think in a world where Switch 2 is out it just doesn't make sense for someone to want a OLED Switch. Also I think Switch 2 will reuse the OLED panel but that doesn't mean they will have a ton of changes to the overall design while keeping the same shalre. V2 will make sense for someone to want who doesn't care about graphics and just wants to play the latest cross gen Mario and Pokemon and doesn't care about performance.

That isn't necessarily the case, as OLED Model is substantially complexity reduced compared to the V2, and uses fewer materials overall, like less copper, less PCB, fewer discrete ICs, etc.

 

[Eclissi]

You’re no fun.

Or is it Italian





So am I

 

[Discostew]

I didn't know the games are alre compressed and if you say Switch 2 can decompress on the fly without taking a performance hit then I guess my idea isn't viable. As long a developers can fit PS4 sized games in a 32GB cart then I guess it's all good. Most AAA games are above 30GB on PS4.

A big reason why PS4/XB1 games were large has to do with data duplication, where different pieces of data typically (but not always) tend to be loaded together are purposefully duplicated in a sequential manner. This was to help reduce load times, because each time an HDD has to do random accesses, it tacks on a hefty delay for physically repositioning the read head. With games being made up of 10s of thousands of files, and impossible to organize them in a way that could effectively reduce random access, they had no other choice. This isn't just duplicating the data once, or just pairing a few pieces of data together. Each level could contain duplicates of a variety of objects so that the level becomes streamed in as fast as possible.

It's why even with PS5 games having higher quality assets, you may actually see those games being smaller in size than their PS4 counterparts. Loading from a very fast solid state drive that doesn't have that hefty random access delay tacked on, they could forgo duplicating data altogether.

 

[kalosmani]

This has probably been said and noticed before, but when it comes to Nintendo's next-gen Switch device, it's being kept under lock and key, with small things leaking out once in a while, and being misconstructed through a game of telephone. The info of the cancelled device is probably not Drake, as more outlets would have reported on a device like this being cancelled. So, with that in mind, any info about this device, especially the release date, could be false or outdated. It could be H1 2023, 2024, or even a 2025 release. The important thing here is to use your own judgement on if what insiders or info havers say is true or not. Everyone is wrong sometimes or makes mistakes.

I personally think releasing later than 2024 would be a mistake from Nintendo. With cross gen being more prevalent on PS4 and Xbox One it's a chance for Nintendo to receive 3rd party ports while the games are relatively still new. For example a Diablo 4 or Street Fighter 6 releasing in fall 2023 for Switch 2 would be more exciting than a late port in 2025 when those games become older.

 

[kalosmani]

A big reason why PS4/XB1 games were large has to do with data duplication, where different pieces of data typically (but not always) tend to be loaded together are purposefully duplicated in a sequential manner. This was to help reduce load times, because each time an HDD has to do random accesses, it tacks on a hefty delay for physically repositioning the read head. With games being made up of 10s of thousands of files, and impossible to organize them in a way that could effectively reduce random access, they had no other choice. This isn't just duplicating the data once, or just pairing a few pieces of data together. Each level could contain duplicates of a variety of objects so that the level becomes streamed in as fast as possible.

It's why even with PS5 games having higher quality assets, you may actually see those games being smaller in size than their PS4 counterparts. Loading from a very fast solid state drive that doesn't have that hefty random access delay tacked on, they could forgo duplicating data altogether.

Yes but when still a PS5 version of a game the game data isn't reduced substantially not under 30gb level of data reduction. To answer my own question you can argue that's due to PS5 using larger 4K assets, only time will tell if we can get large games like GTAV and Red Dead 2 in a 32gb cart.

 

[Pokemaniac]

To me it seems the best solution is mandatory installation of games and Nintendo to provide a larger internal drive, perhaps even a SSD. Games come in 16-32gb cartridges and installed to a 500GB SSD, the compression technology maybe able to double or even triple the size of the game data when installed from the cartridge.

Compression isn't magic. Most of the large data that games include doesn't compress super well in the first place without tailored, lossy algorithms, and a fair amount of that is already being employed. You might be able to get some savings by compressing the data on carts, but likely not enough to make a meaningful difference in most cases.

 

[kalosmani]

That isn't necessarily the case, as OLED Model is substantially complexity reduced compared to the V2, and uses fewer materials overall, like less copper, less PCB, fewer discrete ICs, etc.

I had no idea the OLED is cheaper to produce. Perhaps they can create a Switch V3 with the less complexity materials of an OLED but with the cheaper plastics of a V2 and cheaper LCD and 32GB internal memory. It's not unusual to make a revision so late in a generation to cut further costs, they did that with Wii when they removed Gamecube ports and of course 2DS.

 

[kalosmani]

Compression isn't magic. Most of the large data that games include doesn't compress super well in the first place without tailored, lossy algorithms, and a fair amount of that is already being employed. You might be able to get some savings by compressing the data on carts, but likely not enough to make a meaningful difference in most cases.

I stand corrected, I still think Switch 2 should at least come with 256GB internal storage so it can always have 2 largest sized games installed without the need for an SD card when buying digital.