NateDrake
Chain Chomp
Not all new info requires an update. I'm not going to make another podcast to reiterate the same info from months prior. Until I give an update, the info from October remains accurate.
-
Hey everyone, staff have documented a list of banned content and subject matter that we feel are not consistent with site values, and don't make sense to host discussion of on Famiboards. This list (and the relevant reasoning per item) is viewable here.
-
Do you have audio editing experience and want to help out with the Famiboards Discussion Club Podcast? If so, we're looking for help and would love to have you on the team! Just let us know in the Podcast Thread if you are interested!
StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
- Thread starter Dakhil
- Start date
But what about an asmr of you eating Subway?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Quiet, do you WANT another partner direct???
NateDrake
Chain Chomp
You really want another Partner or Mini this yr, eh?
Its all about the chaos Nate, let it consume you but not before you consume more Subway lol
sagadego20
Paratroopa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
will this new system support headphone jack?
Hmmm, I wasn't aware of that; but as the time of that report, I imagine Nintendo expected to have the sequel to BotW out at 2021 at the latest. They can only do so much when there's over 5 years between new mainline games.
Given this game was delayed - possibly twice, internally - it's likely there just isn't another project to fill the gap.
Hosermess
Koopa
have you not heard?
He talked about the timing in October too. There's no news about anything, leave him beTop
Ok, there is no news about the specs ... But what about the timing? Is it possible that your retweet is linked to some hint of an upcoming announcement? Don't do this to us, Nate
heard what?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We have zero information about this but I'd be a bit surprised if it didn't.
I don't see why not. bluetooth is extremely spotty since it's using the base protocol, and not something like qualcomm's
sagadego20
Paratroopa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
good i spent 40$ on these
The most Nintendo move would be to replace the headphone jack with the iOS lighting port
“It took a lot from the trifoce of courage to replace the headphone jack, please understand”
General process node summary (22 nm** - 2 nm**)
Look over there
Bob-omb
Hmm, might as well do a recap, as I'm sure that you're not the only reader wondering 'what's all this nm business in relation to the Switch'
First off, 'x nm' used to literally refer to the length of one aspect of a transistor, but that stopped being the case for a while now (was the decoupling back in the 90's or 2000's?). The nomenclature continues on as a matter of 'eh, might as well'. They're just labels/branding now.
Next, they can generally be organized in terms of generations. I'll refer to the ITRS roadmap from 2017 for generation names.
Generally speaking, each generation should offer significant improvements, while nodes that are just refinements/variants within the same generation should offer minor to moderate improvements.
22nm:
TSMC 20nm node is part of this generation. The original Nintendo Switch (v1, Erista) was manufactured on this node. For consistency with the rest of this post, I'll state that this is 0 generations removed from the first Switch.
14nm:
TSMC 16FF/12FF are part of this generation. Switch-wise, v2/Mariko/Redbox/Lite/OLED. 1 generation removed from the start.
(PS4 Slim/Pro were also made on this node, I think?)
I should point out that the TSMC 20->16FF/12FF jump was huge for power savings, both on paper (probably fair to ballpark it as 2 later generations worth of gains) and in practice, as demonstrated with the v2. There was a major shift in transistor design (the FF stands for FinFET), thus the even better than usual improvement.
10nm:
2 generations removed from the start.
There was a very short lived TSMC 10FF node. On paper, gains weren't shabby actually, but they phased this one out once they got the next generation going.
Samsung's entry here starts with 10 LPE and gets refined over and over. 10LPE->10LPP->8LPP->8LPU. Yes, Samsung's 8nm nodes are just 10nm refinements. Nvidia's Orin is on... one of those Samsung 8 nm nodes. As far as we are aware, Drake's design is an offshoot of Orin, which is why our speculation starts here.
7nm:
3 generations removed from the start.
TSMC's entry here starts with N7, then there are a few variants. N6 is a N7 refinement/variant. On paper, the gains in power efficiency that TSMC advertises for the jump from 16FF/12FF to N7 are... about the same as 20->16FF/12FF. That's more to highlight that wow, 20->16FF/12FF was good. The PS5/Xbox Series consoles are made on this node family. We are aware that Nvidia has/had some capacity on N7 because of the A100 gpu.
Samsung's entry here starts with 7LPP and also gets refined over and over. 7LPP->(6LPP)->5LPE->5LPP->(4LPE). 6LPP is in parentheses because eventually it disappears from presentations. 4LPE is in parentheses because eventually Samsung reclassifies it to being a member of the next generation
Consensus is that TSMC's the better of the two for this generation.
5nm:
4 generations removed from the start. As of today, this is the latest generation with products out on the market.
For TSMC, the N5 and N4 nodes are part of this generation. N5 started production in 2020, N5P in 2021, N4 this year, and N4P's either later this year or next year. The N5 family is one of the suspects since purportedly, Nvidia spent multiple billions of USD to secure capacity on this family for their next generation of products.
For Samsung, 4LPE and 4LPP are officially their entries in this generation.
Again, consensus is that TSMC's the winner of this generation.
3nm:
5 generations removed from the start.
For TSMC, N3 is expected to start volume production by the end of this year, with products hitting the market next year. TSMC is still using FinFET (the transistor design approach they first started using back in 16FF) here.
For Samsung, 3GAE supposedly started production this week. 3GAP is scheduled for next year. Here, they're attempting Gate-All-Around, which is the next major shift in transistor design.
Obviously, products aren't out yet. But, Samsung's latest promised gains for 3GAE and 3GAP are... not encouraging. The short of it is, if N3 and 3GAP deliver exactly according to the promises of today, I'd expect TSMC to stay winners.
2nm:
6 generations removed from the start. Too far off in the future for Drake, but hell, might as well finish things.
For TSMC, N2 is where they're attempting the transition from FinFET to Gate-All-Around. It is expected to start production in late 2025, so it probably means product in 2026.
As of last October, Samsung claimed that 2GAP will start mass production in 2025.
NintenDuvo
Bob-omb
- Pronouns
- He him
July is going to be a long birthday month for me, last year on my birthday July 6th i woke up to notifications of a Nintendo Switch OLED model went screaming through my house yelling finally the rumored Switch Pro is real, best birthday even and then i got on youtube with all of that coming to a resounding thud, i still haven't recovered lol
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Can this be threadmarked, please?Hmm, might as well do a recap, as I'm sure that you're not the only reader wondering 'what's all this nm business in relation to the Switch'
First off, 'x nm' used to literally refer to the length of one aspect of a transistor, but that stopped being the case for a while now (was the decoupling back in the 90's or 2000's?). The nomenclature continues on as a matter of 'eh, might as well'. They're just labels/branding now.
Next, they can generally be organized in terms of generations. I'll refer to the ITRS roadmap from 2017 for generation names.
Generally speaking, each generation should offer significant improvements, while nodes that are just refinements/variants within the same generation should offer minor to moderate improvements.
22nm:
TSMC 20nm node is part of this generation. The original Nintendo Switch (v1, Erista) was manufactured on this node. For consistency with the rest of this post, I'll state that this is 0 generations removed from the first Switch.
14nm:
TSMC 16FF/12FF are part of this generation. Switch-wise, v2/Mariko/Redbox/Lite/OLED. 1 generation removed from the start.
(PS4 Slim/Pro were also made on this node, I think?)
I should point out that the TSMC 20->16FF/12FF jump was huge for power savings, both on paper (probably fair to ballpark it as 2 later generations worth of gains) and in practice, as demonstrated with the v2. There was a major shift in transistor design (the FF stands for FinFET), thus the even better than usual improvement.
10nm:
2 generations removed from the start.
There was a very short lived TSMC 10FF node. On paper, gains weren't shabby actually, but they phased this one out once they got the next generation going.
Samsung's entry here starts with 10 LPE and gets refined over and over. 10LPE->10LPP->8LPP->8LPU. Yes, Samsung's 8nm nodes are just 10nm refinements. Nvidia's Orin is on... one of those Samsung 8 nm nodes. As far as we are aware, Drake's design is an offshoot of Orin, which is why our speculation starts here.
7nm:
3 generations removed from the start.
TSMC's entry here starts with N7, then there are a few variants. N6 is a N7 refinement/variant. On paper, the gains in power efficiency that TSMC advertises for the jump from 16FF/12FF to N7 are... about the same as 20->16FF/12FF. That's more to highlight that wow, 20->16FF/12FF was good. The PS5/Xbox Series consoles are made on this node family. We are aware that Nvidia has/had some capacity on N7 because of the A100 gpu.
Samsung's entry here starts with 7LPP and also gets refined over and over. 7LPP->(6LPP)->5LPE->5LPP->(4LPE). 6LPP is in parentheses because eventually it disappears from presentations. 4LPE is in parentheses because eventually Samsung reclassifies it to being a member of the next generation
Consensus is that TSMC's the better of the two for this generation.
5nm:
4 generations removed from the start. As of today, this is the latest generation with products out on the market.
For TSMC, the N5 and N4 nodes are part of this generation. N5 started production in 2020, N5P in 2021, N4 this year, and N4P's either later this year or next year. The N5 family is one of the suspects since purportedly, Nvidia spent multiple billions of USD to secure capacity on this family for their next generation of products.
For Samsung, 4LPE and 4LPP are officially their entries in this generation.
Again, consensus is that TSMC's the winner of this generation.
3nm:
5 generations removed from the start.
For TSMC, N3 is expected to start volume production by the end of this year, with products hitting the market next year. TSMC is still using FinFET (the transistor design approach they first started using back in 16FF) here.
For Samsung, 3GAE supposedly started production this week. 3GAP is scheduled for next year. Here, they're attempting Gate-All-Around, which is the next major shift in transistor design.
Obviously, products aren't out yet. But, Samsung's latest promised gains for 3GAE and 3GAP are... not encouraging. The short of it is, if N3 and 3GAP deliver exactly according to the promises of today, I'd expect TSMC to stay winners.
2nm:
6 generations removed from the start. Too far off in the future for Drake, but hell, might as well finish things.
For TSMC, N2 is where they're attempting the transition from FinFET to Gate-All-Around. It is expected to start production in late 2025, so it probably means product in 2026.
As of last October, Samsung claimed that 2GAP will start mass production in 2025.
I dunno who to tag because usually when I ask for a threadmark I'm joking.
Tentacle-tropes
Kremling
Dekuman
Kremling
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I wouldn't mind it, I think it's all about content. the 2020 partner showcases kinda of petered out due to the monthly format and the later announcements being kind of meh and the directs being too short. The direct format works because it's not just a list of games, it's a show that takes people on a journey, dropping surprises and showing interesting content. Sometimes quantity can also make up for one large announcement, case in point is the partner direct that just released. No massive announce but it was jam packed of good games. if they can achieve that with another partner direct, bring it on. Just don't give us a 10 minute direct with Just Dance, some annualized wrestling game taking space in the presentation.
Not for any specific reason?
Just kidding, but I think rather than new info on this, maybe he got the NVN2 issue solved, thats why the info in that video is as accurate as back then.
Anyway, Nate is a pure King
Gets mad
Aether
Tingle
Honestly, after this partner direct i would be worried about another one, since i cant see how they would fill all that with games, without the schedule actually getting TO cramped.
(-> actually affecting sales of many games)
Eradicate
Moblin
Oh, that's actually really interesting! I looked and saw they already have a piano for LABO that doesn't "seem" to operate in the same way. But, maybe they are making another instrument, drum pad-kind of thing, or something like that? Really neat, thank you for pointing that out!
Hmm, might as well do a recap, as I'm sure that you're not the only reader wondering 'what's all this nm business in relation to the Switch'
First off, 'x nm' used to literally refer to the length of one aspect of a transistor, but that stopped being the case for a while now (was the decoupling back in the 90's or 2000's?). The nomenclature continues on as a matter of 'eh, might as well'. They're just labels/branding now.
Next, they can generally be organized in terms of generations. I'll refer to the ITRS roadmap from 2017 for generation names.
Generally speaking, each generation should offer significant improvements, while nodes that are just refinements/variants within the same generation should offer minor to moderate improvements.
22nm:
TSMC 20nm node is part of this generation. The original Nintendo Switch (v1, Erista) was manufactured on this node. For consistency with the rest of this post, I'll state that this is 0 generations removed from the first Switch.
14nm:
TSMC 16FF/12FF are part of this generation. Switch-wise, v2/Mariko/Redbox/Lite/OLED. 1 generation removed from the start.
(PS4 Slim/Pro were also made on this node, I think?)
I should point out that the TSMC 20->16FF/12FF jump was huge for power savings, both on paper (probably fair to ballpark it as 2 later generations worth of gains) and in practice, as demonstrated with the v2. There was a major shift in transistor design (the FF stands for FinFET), thus the even better than usual improvement.
10nm:
2 generations removed from the start.
There was a very short lived TSMC 10FF node. On paper, gains weren't shabby actually, but they phased this one out once they got the next generation going.
Samsung's entry here starts with 10 LPE and gets refined over and over. 10LPE->10LPP->8LPP->8LPU. Yes, Samsung's 8nm nodes are just 10nm refinements. Nvidia's Orin is on... one of those Samsung 8 nm nodes. As far as we are aware, Drake's design is an offshoot of Orin, which is why our speculation starts here.
7nm:
3 generations removed from the start.
TSMC's entry here starts with N7, then there are a few variants. N6 is a N7 refinement/variant. On paper, the gains in power efficiency that TSMC advertises for the jump from 16FF/12FF to N7 are... about the same as 20->16FF/12FF. That's more to highlight that wow, 20->16FF/12FF was good. The PS5/Xbox Series consoles are made on this node family. We are aware that Nvidia has/had some capacity on N7 because of the A100 gpu.
Samsung's entry here starts with 7LPP and also gets refined over and over. 7LPP->(6LPP)->5LPE->5LPP->(4LPE). 6LPP is in parentheses because eventually it disappears from presentations. 4LPE is in parentheses because eventually Samsung reclassifies it to being a member of the next generation
Consensus is that TSMC's the better of the two for this generation.
5nm:
4 generations removed from the start. As of today, this is the latest generation with products out on the market.
For TSMC, the N5 and N4 nodes are part of this generation. N5 started production in 2020, N5P in 2021, N4 this year, and N4P's either later this year or next year. The N5 family is one of the suspects since purportedly, Nvidia spent multiple billions of USD to secure capacity on this family for their next generation of products.
For Samsung, 4LPE and 4LPP are officially their entries in this generation.
Again, consensus is that TSMC's the winner of this generation.
3nm:
5 generations removed from the start.
For TSMC, N3 is expected to start volume production by the end of this year, with products hitting the market next year. TSMC is still using FinFET (the transistor design approach they first started using back in 16FF) here.
For Samsung, 3GAE supposedly started production this week. 3GAP is scheduled for next year. Here, they're attempting Gate-All-Around, which is the next major shift in transistor design.
Obviously, products aren't out yet. But, Samsung's latest promised gains for 3GAE and 3GAP are... not encouraging. The short of it is, if N3 and 3GAP deliver exactly according to the promises of today, I'd expect TSMC to stay winners.
2nm:
6 generations removed from the start. Too far off in the future for Drake, but hell, might as well finish things.
For TSMC, N2 is where they're attempting the transition from FinFET to Gate-All-Around. It is expected to start production in late 2025, so it probably means product in 2026.
As of last October, Samsung claimed that 2GAP will start mass production in 2025.
I actually second this! Very clear and helpful rundown of this terminology that keeps getting thrown around! I learned a lot from it! Really, really helpful @Look over there . Thank you!Can this be threadmarked, please?
I dunno who to tag because usually when I ask for a threadmark I'm joking.
I grew up with Atari, haha, and remember the "bit wars" fondly. It seems like the tech-talk has definitely gotten very advanced and refined, which is incredible to see for sure with people using it, but it's easy to get lost. (Not my field!) It doesn't seem like the "transistor/nm wars" can last too long, but we'll see!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I really don't this is happening. You guys are all wrong, famiboards is a farce.
The biggest question on my mind, is whether it will be a november or a march release. Something that will be nice though, is to see how well supported this thing actually is. It finally seems every publisher except EA has been full throttle in switch development. I could only imagine what extra power will do for support.
I am wrong on pretty much everything, so there you go fami. I have started the ritual to materialize this thing.
The biggest question on my mind, is whether it will be a november or a march release. Something that will be nice though, is to see how well supported this thing actually is. It finally seems every publisher except EA has been full throttle in switch development. I could only imagine what extra power will do for support.
Dekuman
Kremling
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
This direct didn't feel it had more 3rd party content than a regular E3 direct and since Nintendo usually has a 3rd party focused direct every September already, another one like this is possible assuming Nintendo decides not to show up again in September
Magic-Man
Perseus Jackson
- Pronouns
- He/Him
November wouldn't make a ton of sense. Metroid Prime and Pokemon aren't exactly showcase titles, with one being a remaster and the other having Pokemon graphics. I'm thinking that it releases alongside Mario + Rabbids Sparks of Hope if new hardware is truly coming this year. That game would look amazing in 4K.
Aether
Tingle
oh, you mean that late. Oh well, by seeptember i DO hope that its not just a partner direct. If it is, then i start to worrie. For the E3 i was already expecting a lighter news laod on first party. But september is usually the time we get the winter / spring lineup from them.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Metroid Prime would definitely be a showcase title, if rumors of the graphical fidelity make sense. Also, Pokemon is the ultimate game to drive hardware sales. They used Sun and Moon to help drive New 3DS sales, they used Black and White to drive DSi sales, and Firered and Leafgreen was also released right after the GBA SP. Not to mention everything that happened with the GB Color.
Pokemon has had a long-standing tradition, of appearing right by new hardware iterations.
Magic-Man
Perseus Jackson
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Pokemon will be close by, but it's not the game to try and sell a 4K console with. Same with Metroid Prime. Mario + Rabbids LOOKS like the perfect game to pair with it.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Way too early to say Metroid Prime isn’t a good candidate. We haven’t seen just how much it’s updated, but we’ve been told they did substantial work.
Last edited:
DunningSmith
Boo
Apology for my ignorance, but does this rumoured new hardware (Drake?) sound like a revision or a successor?
TheGreatMightyPoo
Like Like
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
The leaked specs suggest a "generational" leap. The rest is marketing which we have no info on.
necrolipe
Universo Nintendo Owner
- Pronouns
- he/him
This answer is very accurate considering the rumored specs
- Pronouns
- He/Him
+1
Literally the only way to answer the question at this stage.
Raccoon
Fox Brigade
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The first open world Pokémon absolutely is the perfect game to sell a new tier of Switch. Pokémon adults are a great target audience for the device, especially with the new game being open world. Tell a segment of the market that they can play the first open world Pokémon game in 4K and they'll totally bite, in far greater numbers than marketing Mario+Rabbids of all things would achieve.
Mr Doggo
Anti oof
This shit is peak nintendo design.We have a headphone jack at home
No for real, this is the thing that needs to be improved the most on the switch 2 or whatever.
About pokemon, i dont think pokemon fans really give a damn about graphics, and i really dont think GF will be able to do much from a higher powered device anyway.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This thing doesn't need to launch with anything, it will be sold out for months regardless. It can help the game it's launching with if it launches with a game, like the OLED model did with Metroid dread.
That's why I think MPHD/4k makes a ton of sense.
That's why I think MPHD/4k makes a ton of sense.
Last edited:
- Pronouns
- He/Him
While I agree, it’s just atypical that they’d not have their own ‘launch’ title.
If they come out with an announcement of updates to their existing lineup - Smash, Odyssey, BotW, etc. and a list of other third party games with ‘Super’ patches, that’s probably an impactful enough launch to carry it for quite some time.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Oh yeah I totally expect it to launch with something, I just think it'll be a game they're trying to boost the sales of, not a game that they're trying to use to boost sales of the console.
So something like Metroid Prime or Bayonetta 3 would fit IMO.
Raccoon
Fox Brigade
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Adjacent to this, I'd go as far as to contend that it doesn't need anything to prove its capabilities. Metroid might do well at that, but it's more important to set the expectation of solid and popular software at this juncture for the platform. That's why I feel launching alongside Pokémon would be such a strong strategy: it sends a positive message about the software, rather than just demonstrating its visual capabilities.
Of course, Rabbids and Pokémon are only a month apart, so it's sort of a moot point; to launch near one is to launch near the other.
Lelouch0612
Growing Install Base
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Last October, Nate predicted that this new Switch would be announced in July and released in October. It would be funny if he was indeed spot on all along.
Lelouch0612
Growing Install Base
- Pronouns
- He/Him
One thing I wanted to share. If the Switch was initially scheduled for this year, then it was probably the plan to launch it with Zelda. But when would Zelda have launched ?
It is reasonable to believe that Nintendo would have wanted to space out its 3 huge games of the year (Botw/Splatoon/Pokémon).
Apparently, Splatoon was initially targetting June, Pokémon is always in November so what does that leave for Zelda ? The September/Early October spot, which was indeed used in the past to launch the OLED and the Lite. It is fair to speculate that it was also the initial launch timing of Animal Crossing (which was later delayed to March 2020, a very similar sitiuation than for Zelda).
So, the new hardware was probably launching in that window, with a lot of games coming right after (Nier; M+R2, Persona 5R, Bayonetta 3 ?).
It is possible that hardware got delayed to Q1/Spring, but we could also have a repeat of 2019 where the big flagship got delayed (AC/Zelda) but the hardware was not.
It is reasonable to believe that Nintendo would have wanted to space out its 3 huge games of the year (Botw/Splatoon/Pokémon).
Apparently, Splatoon was initially targetting June, Pokémon is always in November so what does that leave for Zelda ? The September/Early October spot, which was indeed used in the past to launch the OLED and the Lite. It is fair to speculate that it was also the initial launch timing of Animal Crossing (which was later delayed to March 2020, a very similar sitiuation than for Zelda).
So, the new hardware was probably launching in that window, with a lot of games coming right after (Nier; M+R2, Persona 5R, Bayonetta 3 ?).
It is possible that hardware got delayed to Q1/Spring, but we could also have a repeat of 2019 where the big flagship got delayed (AC/Zelda) but the hardware was not.
JorgenRaft
Chain Chomp
Never played Returnal but watching some streams of it really makes you dream about a Metroid game that looks that good.
Idk what this is but if it benefits games like MP4 and BotW2, I wouldn't mind it being soon.
Idk what this is but if it benefits games like MP4 and BotW2, I wouldn't mind it being soon.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
IIRC wasn't there also a theory that the OLED model was delayed from a Q1 2021 launch with Monster Hunter?
I agree with a lot of this. I think BOTW2 getting delayed is a big part of why this partner Direct happened so late in June. It really just felt like all the third party announcements ripped out of a potential e3 Direct. Imagine if this partner showcase had BOTW2, Splatoon 3, XB3, Metroid Prime, and one other thing. That would have been a standard, great June Direct.
- Pronouns
- She/They
If the next model launches this year there's only two potential spots for a launch as far as i'm concerned.
- November 18th; alongside Pokemon Gen 9 (Game Freak have traditionally been quick to support hardware revisions with new features; currently the largest title shceduled for this year by a longshot).
- Late September - Early October; alongside an unannounced first-party title (not Prime Remastered either). Usually a packed few weeks for Nintendo but currently this year we have nothing scheduled for that time.
Comic Obsessed
Chain Chomp
So, should we get hyped again for July?
Blue Monty
Inkling
- Pronouns
- he/him
Issue with the 2nd timeframe is that there is the rumored/leaked Splatoon OLED version which makes me thing is not possible for a new console to release so close to it imo. Nov-Dec is the most realistic timeframe if it's this year the release date
Blue Monty
Inkling
- Pronouns
- he/him
No is always the best answer to this until really solid evidence of an event exists.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
If there was any month to be hyped for an announcement for this year it would be July yes.
Last edited:
