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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

A new Switch chassis being 1mm thicker and no longer fitting in the original dock would hardly be 'comically bad design.'

This hyperbole gets tiring.
1mm would not be comically bad design, nor would it make it incompatible with Nintendo Switch Dock with LAN Port.

It would still be pretty bad design, given it would look like rubbish with Joy-Con attached, though.

I'm not being hyperbolic, not in the slightest. If they design this thing poorly, they will be laughed at. All they need to do is not diverge too much.
 
1mm would not be comically bad design, nor would it make it incompatible with Nintendo Switch Dock with LAN Port.

It would still be pretty bad design, given it would look like rubbish with Joy-Con attached, though.

I'm not being hyperbolic, not in the slightest. If they design this thing poorly, they will be laughed at. All they need to do is not diverge too much.
A thicker chassis that smoothly tapers into the Joycon would look and feel absolutely fine.
 
My handbag isn't getting any wider! A personal issue I know, but it's not like my bag is exceptionally small in a world of satchels and packs.
skill issue

leaving-lebron-james.gif
 
My main concern still is that they should redesign the joycons. My hands are not that big though still the Switch is quite painful to hold for longer than 30 minutes.

Agreed. I would use my switch handheld much more often if it was more ergonomic to hold like the WiiU gamepad was. There's a tradeoff there with backwards compatibility of hardware as being discussed and aesthetics suffer sometimes too. But I would sure like to use the switch's main selling point more often without having to set up a goose neck mount on my couch and bust out the pro controller.

Even if it's just a slightly more curved back to it instead of flat like this fan concept from a few years ago, it would help:

 
Agreed. I would use my switch handheld much more often if it was more ergonomic to hold like the WiiU gamepad was. There's a tradeoff there with backwards compatibility of hardware as being discussed and aesthetics suffer sometimes too. But I would sure like to use the switch's main selling point more often without having to set up a goose neck mount on my couch and bust out the pro controller.

Even if it's just a slightly more curved back to it instead of flat like this fan concept from a few years ago, it would help:


Thicker grips on the backs of the joycons and symmetrical thumbstick placement???

Who designed that, and how did they see into my soul?
 
no love here for the sideways joy-con as usual

when I finally finish my concept everyone will be satisfied
I still wonder if the answer for people like me who need the thiccness would be like an optional "joycon pro" that has a shell/button/stick size that's better for big hands, and still have the standard compact joycon (that hold consistently sideways) come with the system. Seems like a missed opportunity to me that it's only the aftermarket covering the big-hand market.
 
...almost everyone

I still wonder if the answer for people like me who need the thiccness would be like an optional "joycon pro" that has a shell/button/stick size that's better for big hands, and still have the standard compact joycon (that hold consistently sideways) come with the system. Seems like a missed opportunity to me that it's only the aftermarket covering the big-hand market.
I have the solution! Maybe! Just have to open Blender tonight
 
no love here for the sideways joy-con as usual

when I finally finish my concept everyone will be satisfied

The lack of justice for small hands and single Joy-Con play is appalling, and I have big momma bear mitts!

I want the next Joy-Con to be more comfortable, but I don't want the device itself, the console, to be much bigger, that's all. A subtle curve could help a lot. I definitely want them to do something to improve the Joy-Con ergonomics. That said, I don't actually expect them to. The sleekness of the device relative to say, Steam Deck, is part of its mass market appeal and sacrificing that would be a difficult sell. We all saw how the Wii U GamePad was viewed, despite its huge bulk, soft edges, long ridge and bulbous back all being what made it so comfortable to hold. Wii U is where comfort peaked.

In terms of comfort:

Wii U Pro Controller> Wii U GamePad> NSW Pro Controller > GCN Controller > N64 controller > Wii Classic/Classic Pro> SNES controller > Joy-Con> NES controller.
 
The name Joy-Con is so perfect it's unreal, it isn't made up word entirely, it's combination of enjoy and controller. It also works when you are adding things to it, Toy-Con, Ring-Con.
I always thought the Joy went with Sticks. That’s what they were called back in the day.
 
I still wonder if the answer for people like me who need the thiccness would be like an optional "joycon pro" that has a shell/button/stick size that's better for big hands, and still have the standard compact joycon (that hold consistently sideways) come with the system. Seems like a missed opportunity to me that it's only the aftermarket covering the big-hand market.
It's not even a big hand issue. Joycons are just not very ergonomic regardless of hand size.
 
The name Joy-Con is so perfect it's unreal, it isn't made up word entirely, it's combination of enjoy and controller. It also works when you are adding things to it, Toy-Con, Ring-Con.
"-Con" is a common shorthand in Japan for controller, like "Tata-con" for Taiko no Tatsujin Controller.

Though the official name is the really unwieldy "Joy-Con Controller", plural "Joy-Con”, and worse, "Joy-Con (L) controller and Joy-Con (R) controller" forming a "Joy-Con Pair".

Weirdly, in official literature, "Joy-Con Pair" is kind of normal, with plural "Joy-Con Pairs" and no "controller" appended to the end.
 
I still wonder if the answer for people like me who need the thiccness would be like an optional "joycon pro" that has a shell/button/stick size that's better for big hands, and still have the standard compact joycon (that hold consistently sideways) come with the system. Seems like a missed opportunity to me that it's only the aftermarket covering the big-hand market.

Agreed. I'm shocked Nintendo never released an official joycon pro. I know we have the Hori Pad Pro but I actually want something more in between a Pro Controller cut in half and the OEM joycons. And ideally, released/supported by Nintendo and not third party.
 
Koizumi states that they were called "Joy" because they want players to "enjoy" the controllers. He followed that thought by saying that they also like the idea of it being "joined" to the platform. Thus, the name.
 
It would not really constrain ventilation on the new system unless it puts its inlet right in the middle of the rear. Bottom, sides, top or otherwise are all covered.

Understanding the dock as a limitation is to not understand the dock.

The Nintendo Switch Dock with LAN Port HAS additional ventilation unused by any model. It HAS a few extra milimeters of tolerance in any dimension.

And of course, to suggest that the dock couldn't work due to a drastic change in the shell's size and shape is, well, utter poppycock if you're also saying Joy-Con will work, unless you seriously suggest that this device will taper the ends to attach the Joy-Con. Which, really? Really? Do you think marketing would sign off on that?

As I said, I expect Joy-Cons to work over bluetooth, not that I expect them to be able to physically attach to the new model (although they might). If people have additional Joy-Cons it's mainly to allow them to be used as additional bluetooth controllers for multiplayer, and I expect that functionality to be retained. The new model will (presumably) come with a pair of Joy-Cons and players aren't losing out on much other than preferred colour combinations if they can't attach their old Joy-Cons to the sides of the new model.

You've asked multiple times if marketing would sign off on it, and honestly I don't think marketing will care nearly as much about compatibility with something they consider a replacement part as they would about Nintendo's next generation console looking identical to the previous generation. Physical Joy-Con compatibility, particularly, would mean it has to be identical in height and thickness to the fraction of a millimetre (102.0mm high and 13.9mm thick), with exactly the same curvature around the edges as the existing Switch. There's very little scope there to visually distinguish it from the previous generation.

Every single time Nintendo have released a new hardware generation it's had a significant change in design from the previous generation, and it would be very surprising if they stopped now. It's not just Nintendo, either, it's standard practice in consumer electronics to make design changes with each new generation of hardware to make sure customers can clearly distinguish the fancy new model from the the crummy old one (even if the old design was perfectly good). The only time Nintendo came close to re-using the same design with a new generation was the Wii U, which resembled a rounded-off Wii. The Wii U is basically a textbook case in how to fail to distinguish new hardware from old, though, considering how many people thought the gamepad was just an accessory for the Wii.
 
So your selection process consisted of deciding how the features would translate to something entertaining in an actual game, and made your decisions based on how you saw things playing out.

Takahashi: Exactly. That’s why the hardware team was always on our case, saying “You’re going to use this? Are you sure you’re going to use it?! Give us an answer!” (laughs).
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Hardware team be like: who in the hell is gonna use IR Camera?

EPD4: No worries, we will.
 
0
Mario Kart 8 only had the map on the GamePad display for months before an update changed it. Honestly Deluxe still doesn't show a lot of the GUI that was on the GamePad!

Like a complete list of all positions and their items! It's just gone! Shocking! Not that I ever miss it but still...
So, it was like how Mario Kart on the DS was? Further proving my point. Excellent.
 
As I said, I expect Joy-Cons to work over bluetooth, not that I expect them to be able to physically attach to the new model (although they might). If people have additional Joy-Cons it's mainly to allow them to be used as additional bluetooth controllers for multiplayer, and I expect that functionality to be retained. The new model will (presumably) come with a pair of Joy-Cons and players aren't losing out on much other than preferred colour combinations if they can't attach their old Joy-Cons to the sides of the new model.

You've asked multiple times if marketing would sign off on it, and honestly I don't think marketing will care nearly as much about compatibility with something they consider a replacement part as they would about Nintendo's next generation console looking identical to the previous generation. Physical Joy-Con compatibility, particularly, would mean it has to be identical in height and thickness to the fraction of a millimetre (102.0mm high and 13.9mm thick), with exactly the same curvature around the edges as the existing Switch. There's very little scope there to visually distinguish it from the previous generation.

Every single time Nintendo have released a new hardware generation it's had a significant change in design from the previous generation, and it would be very surprising if they stopped now. It's not just Nintendo, either, it's standard practice in consumer electronics to make design changes with each new generation of hardware to make sure customers can clearly distinguish the fancy new model from the the crummy old one (even if the old design was perfectly good). The only time Nintendo came close to re-using the same design with a new generation was the Wii U, which resembled a rounded-off Wii. The Wii U is basically a textbook case in how to fail to distinguish new hardware from old, though, considering how many people thought the gamepad was just an accessory for the Wii.
there are a ton of ways to visually distinguish the device without compromising on size
 
Ultimately Nintendo Switch as a concept fundamentally must limit the amount of deviation from the basic design. It's a 7" tablet with an active cooling system. There's only so many ways you can package that, and there's little incentive for them to change the shape when there's other ways to make the device visually distinct. If by limitation of the formfactor it ends up being incredibly similar in size and shape to the console previous, not having the accessories be compatible would be a ridiculous gambit. Suggesting that the Joy-Con would be compatible wirelessly but not attach just isn't viable: they CHARGE BY ATTACHING.
 
Ultimately Nintendo Switch as a concept fundamentally must limit the amount of deviation from the basic design. It's a 7" tablet with an active cooling system. There's only so many ways you can package that, and there's little incentive for them to change the shape when there's other ways to make the device visually distinct. If by limitation of the formfactor it ends up being incredibly similar in size and shape to the console previous, not having the accessories be compatible would be a ridiculous gambit. Suggesting that the Joy-Con would be compatible wirelessly but not attach just isn't viable: they CHARGE BY ATTACHING.
the enthusiast solution: an adapter sold separately
 
the enthusiast solution: an adapter sold separately
I already have that adaptor, but telling people to buy an adaptor to have their old controllers just doesn't work untill it's a specialised controller for a specific game, like GCN and Smash. The type to buy an adaptor is not the casual market. But the type to reuse controllers from the previous generation is the casual market!

(Yes, I know you were joking, don't worry.)
 
I already have that adaptor, but telling people to buy an adaptor to have their old controllers just doesn't work untill it's a specialised controller for a specific game, like GCN and Smash. The type to buy an adaptor is not the casual market. But the type to reuse controllers from the previous generation is the casual market!
to be clear, I almost exclusively use the word enthusiast pejoratively
 
they're called Joy-Con Plus in my concept lmao
It's the easiest and best name imo. Joy-Con 2 sounds weird. It's just the upgraded version of Joy-Con that's why the Plus, with added features. Altough it may be weird if they remove IR Camera when EPD4 says they don't need it this time and they will add something else.

The fact that Nintendo Switch Online + Expansion Pack uses the + makes me think they will use Plus too.
 
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N64 controller isn't more comfortable than the Joycon. Not for me.

Also I'm a huge tetris fan and playing T99 with split controllers is wonderful.
Very off-topic, I know, but I'm just astounded to find a Joe Ingles profile picture on this forum. Amazed even. Always knew he would be heavily invested into playing the [REDACTED].
 
N64 controller isn't more comfortable than the Joycon. Not for me.

Also I'm a huge tetris fan and playing T99 with split controllers is wonderful.
I find the N64 controllers pretty comfortable, maybe I'm just weird? They just sit so snugly in my hand with the left handle wrapped over the back of my hand while I grip the middle.

Now, the split Joy-Con are definitely a plus to Joy-Con comfort, just not one I personally ever use. Plus their relatively poor connection means if a hand falls anywhere out of sight of the console and it'll drop off.
 
Speaking of docks and backwards compatibility and soforth, something occurred to me that may be of minor interest in the "Did Nintendo cancel a 4K Switch?" discussion.

When Switch firmware 12.0 released a couple of years ago, the homebrew community found a USB configuration setting in it called "4kdp_preferred_over_usb30", which made the mainstream news as it suggested a forthcoming 4K Switch model. To provide a bit of context for this, a USB-C connection has four lanes with which it can transmit and receive data, with a separate USB 2 lane included for auxiliary data. Devices can divide these four lanes in pairs between USB 3 data and various alt modes, and in the case of DisplayPort alt mode (which Switch uses to transmit video and audio data to the dock), you can either use two lanes for DisplayPort and two for USB 3 data, or you can use all four lanes for DisplayPort, which means the only USB data you can transmit is over the USB 2 aux lane.

If we stick to USB 3 and DisplayPort 1.4 or lower, two lanes of DisplayPort aren't sufficient to transmit uncompressed 4K HDR video at 60Hz. You can use either chroma sub-sampling or DSC (Display Stream Compression) to squeeze it in, which would have a relatively minor impact on image quality, but if you can transmit it uncompressed then obviously that's preferable. The "4kdp_preferred_over_usb30" configuration setting, then, is clearly to choose between transmitting four lanes of DisplayPort over the USB-C connection, allowing for uncompressed 4K video but no USB 3 data, or transmitting only 2 lanes of DisplayPort and having USB 3 data alongside it.

What I realised is that the "4kdp_preferred_over_usb30" setting was definitely not added for use with T239-based hardware, for the simple reason that T239 doesn't have four lanes of DisplayPort output. Here's the relevant code from the Linux commit that gives us info on T239's DisplayPort implementation:

Code:
struct cmd_uphy_display_port_init_request {
    /** @brief DisplayPort link rate, T239 valid: 1620, 2700, 5400, 8100, 2160, 2430, 3240, 4320, 6750 */
    uint16_t link_rate;
    /** @brief 1: lane 0; 2: lane 1; 3: lane 0 and 1 */
    uint16_t lanes_bitmap;
} BPMP_ABI_PACKED;

You can see that the lanes_bitmap variable only supports up to two lanes, and this code is specific to T239 because neither Xavier or Orin support DisplayPort over their UPHY interfaces.

So, if T239 only has two lanes of DisplayPort output, then a "4kdp_preferred_over_usb30" setting makes no sense. It can still transmit 4K HDR video that's probably indistinguishable in most cases using DSC or chroma sub-sampling, but it can do that in two lanes alongside USB 3 data, rather than trading off between 4K output and USB 3 data.

If the "4kdp_preferred_over_usb30" wasn't added for T239, then it follows that there must have been some other plans for a 4K capable Switch model separate from the T239 project. That doesn't necessarily mean rendering games at 4K, as it's possible it was just planned to take existing Switch graphics and scale it to a 4K output, or even just support video streaming like Netflix or YouTube or whatever at 4K, but there must have existed plans for some sort of Switch model that would output at 4K resolution that didn't use T239.
 
I almost exclusively play in handheld mode and have never had any issues. What the fuck is wrong with my hands?
I remember how my hands usually ended up going numb after an extended playing session before I crumbled and purchased a handheld grip. You might just be blessed.
 
We all saw how the Wii U GamePad was viewed, despite its huge bulk, soft edges, long ridge and bulbous back all being what made it so comfortable to hold. Wii U is where comfort peaked.

In terms of comfort:

Wii U Pro Controller> Wii U GamePad> NSW Pro Controller > GCN Controller > N64 controller > Wii Classic/Classic Pro> SNES controller > Joy-Con> NES controller.
I feel seen

Agreed. I'm shocked Nintendo never released an official joycon pro. I know we have the Hori Pad Pro but I actually want something more in between a Pro Controller cut in half and the OEM joycons. And ideally, released/supported by Nintendo and not third party.
I'm actually now reminded of the OG Xbox, how the first controller they released was deemed "way too big" by most people but it was one of the most comfortable for me to hold. Then they released the "S-controller" which was closer to what a modern one is like (with the 360, One, and Series following the size and layout) and everyone loved it... except me. 😅 But point is, they had both!! I don't think I've ever seen another console have two factory options for controllers that could fit different hand sizes / grip widths. Considering even the Switch Pro Controller is a bit narrow for me, I'd love if that was something console makers would do again.

there are a ton of ways to visually distinguish the device without compromising on size
Enter Atomic Purple
 
they need to bring back an evolution of the wiimote IR sensor. Just went back to RE4wii after playing the remake demo and my god what a difference. Using dual analog for aiming is so bad....
 
Enter Atomic Purple
there are a ton of ways to visually distinguish the device without compromising on size

Now we're talking!

If they don't go with matte black again, I hope they go all-in on the metal construction. OLED Model goes most of the way there. The whole thing finished in brushed aluminium, or even just regular aluminium like a Joy-Con Rail on the Joy-Con Strap. Personally, I think:

Brushed metal back-plate, black plastic coated metal screen frame like the OLED Model, and untreated/plain aluminium on the kickstand and Joy-Con rails, vent, etc. Same size, completely different visually.

OLED Model- Black console, white dock and Joy-Con
[REDACTED]- Metallic silver console, black dock and Joy-Con.

The logo debossed on the back like it is on the Dock with LAN Port.
 
Please read this new, consolidated staff post before posting.

Furthermore, according to this follow-up post, all off-topic chat will be moderated.
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