StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation and Discussion |ST| "Oh Black Knight, Tape Me Out to Denmark!"

[ILikeFeet]

How long is it since devkits for Dane have been out? 8 months? Is it unusual to not have any leaks on specs at this point? Comparing to Sony and MS? I know NDAs are in place and professional devs aren’t looking to jeopardize their careers for internet clout. But I figured we’d get something at this point, even if it’s not final.

10 months. I wouldn't be suprised if everyone's waiting for the hammer to fall. might be this holiday when people go on vacation and tracking is harder. but by the end of March, I expect damn near all the specs to leak

 

[lemonfresh]

The Nintendo super dane

 

[Hyrulean]

The Nintendo super dane

Purple belt 9th dane

 

[chocolate_supra]

I just found out Dane Whitman is going to be in The Eternals movie and now I'll be giggling every time he's on screen, thanks guys.

 

[SpringwoodSlasher]

All I ask is that Nintendo keeps the Switch branding. Is that too much to ask?…

 

[ArchedThunder]

January


reiterated in July

Second question, if this is the case why hasn’t Nvidia said anything about Orin not being Ampere yet? Are they waiting for the 4000 series GPUs to be announced first?

 

[Hidden04]

I guess this is sorta on topic, but when this "Dane" model releases, how would Nintendo avoid the marketing problems and confusion that they had with the Wii U?

 

[RailWays]

I guess this is sorta on topic, but when this "Dane" model releases, how would Nintendo avoid the marketing problems and confusion that they had with the Wii U?

Actually marketing it as a console in the first trailer would help

 

[ILikeFeet]

Second question, if this is the case why hasn’t Nvidia said anything about Orin not being Ampere yet? Are they waiting for the 4000 series GPUs to be announced first?

Orin might be brought up next month at GTC

I guess this is sorta on topic, but when this "Dane" model releases, how would Nintendo avoid the marketing problems and confusion that they had with the Wii U?

A really good name, a unique look, and exclusives (probably from third paries)

 

[chocolate_supra]

I guess this is sorta on topic, but when this "Dane" model releases, how would Nintendo avoid the marketing problems and confusion that they had with the Wii U?

This is anecdotal, but a couple of my friends who worked at GameStop during the WiiU launch literally did not even know it was a new system. They thought it was a tablet accessory for the Wii and said most customers also thought the same. And by the time it became more widely obvious to people what it was, there were hardly any games for it.

I do not think the Dane model will have either of those two problems, neither the confusion about whether it's an accessory or a system, nor the lack of a game library.

 

[ArchedThunder]

I guess this is sorta on topic, but when this "Dane" model releases, how would Nintendo avoid the marketing problems and confusion that they had with the Wii U?

Good name, good marketing that is clear, the benefits of the hardware being put on display, and good software.

 

[bloopland33]

I haven't seen this brought up in this thread yet, and I'm sure you've all seen it, but the door is apparently not closed on Square bringing KH to Switch natively. @Dakhil, maybe you're right and we will see those games crop up on Dane.

Hopefully in a year's time or so it will be much easier for them if they decide to go through with it...

 

[YolkFolk]

I guess this is sorta on topic, but when this "Dane" model releases, how would Nintendo avoid the marketing problems and confusion that they had with the Wii U?

Switch U

 

[garf02]

How the hell we went from

”Switch pro exist, is like Switch but 4k”

To

”actually its not a pro, its Switch2, Just like Switch but 4K”

To

”actually Switch 2 will change from Switch and it wont be BC”

????

 

[ILikeFeet]

I haven't seen this brought up in this thread yet, and I'm sure you've all seen it, but the door is apparently not closed on Square bringing KH to Switch natively. @Dakhil, maybe you're right and we will see those games crop up on Dane.

Hopefully in a year's time or so it will be much easier for them if they decide to go through with it...

This feels like the same issue tha Metroid had, where they announced a spin off or undesirable game without a primary game. The cloud version has had a pretty vitriolic reaction, but if it came with the announcement of a native Dane version, it would have been better recieved

 

[chocolate_supra]

Switch U

I've seen the name "Switch Up" suggested and while I don't expect it I seriously wouldn't put it past them.

Spoiler

They could put the "Up" in a little blue square beside the original logo and everything.

 

[Dr_Phishshoe]

I've seen the name "Switch Up" suggested and while I don't expect it I seriously wouldn't put it past them.

Spoiler

They could put the "Up" in a little blue square beside the original logo and everything.

Did someone say logo´s? I made this stupid thing a while ago

 

[RailWays]

How the hell we went from

To

To

????

I'm not sure what you mean. We always knew the SoC was different from the original switch and some 3rd parties were working on exclusives for it. The only thing that was shifting in discussion over the last year was expected launch period, naming, and marketing.

Very little chance it doesn't have BC.

 

[bloopland33]

This feels like the same issue tha Metroid had, where they announced a spin off or undesirable game without a primary game. The cloud version has had a pretty vitriolic reaction, but if it came with the announcement of a native Dane version, it would have been better recieved

Good point. I'm fine waiting this long for it to hit the platform if this is what allows them to come over at 1080p/60fps (only referring to 1.5+2.5 here). Maybe they'd have come up short somewhere if they'd been ported ages ago, who knows.

 

[Marce-chan]

How long is it since devkits for Dane have been out? 8 months? Is it unusual to not have any leaks on specs at this point? Comparing to Sony and MS? I know NDAs are in place and professional devs aren’t looking to jeopardize their careers for internet clout. But I figured we’d get something at this point, even if it’s not final.

Since late 2020 per Nate, so almost a year if not a year already.

 

[ILikeFeet]

Good point. I'm fine waiting this long for it to hit the platform if this is what allows them to come over at 1080p/60fps (only referring to 1.5+2.5 here). Maybe they'd have come up short somewhere if they'd been ported ages ago, who knows.

Frame rate would have been the first to go, but the game is pretty light on assets. There's not much to scale down given the fact they are remasters

 

[Marce-chan]

All I ask is that Nintendo keeps the Switch branding. Is that too much to ask?…

There's literally no way it's not called Nintendo Switch something or something Nintendo Switch.
Don't worry.

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

The post that I am imagining in my head estimated the time for DLSS to run on 2-3 potential Dane configurations in ms. TBH, I may be remembering a composite of various related posts.

With that said, I replied to this Thraktor post at the time, and the results still puzzle me. In theory, the cost of DLSS should marginally increase with input resolution, since the earliest layers in the neural network are at input resolution. However, that cost should be fairly negligible (less than 10% of the total cost in the Kaplanyan/Facebook paper) compared to the reconstruction cost at output resolution.

With that in mind, it doesn’t make sense to me that the DLSS compute time should decrease as input resolution increases from 1080p to 1440p. Assuming Thraktor’s tests were controlled correctly (more on that below), the only explanation that I can think of is that Performance, Ultra Performance, and Quality modes already use somewhat different network architectures.

The way that a CNN works is independent of resolution because the weights are shared. That concept (parameter sharing) is one of the main advantage of CNNs, because it means there are fewer weights to train. Besides, from an image processing perspective, it would be a poor choice to use different weights for each pixel position, since the information at those pixel positions is different in each frame. So instead you train a filter, often a 3x3 or 5x5 pixel filter, that loops over each pixel in the frame.

In theory, since you have parameter sharing, you could use the same neural network for each mode. It would be a conscious decision on Nvidia’s part to train a different network for each mode to improve either cost or image quality. If this were true, Thraktor’s results suggest that Performance mode may use a deeper, more computationally expensive network than Quality mode.

This would make the names something of a misnomer, although it does make a certain amount of sense - for example, it makes intuitive sense that you would need a deeper network to reconstruct a “4K” looking image from 720p frames than from 1080p frames.

This doesn’t fully account for what happens when DRS and DLSS are combined. For example, which network would be used when scaling from 900p to 4K - performance or ultra performance? I am not sure.

I am hesitant to make any conclusions based on Thraktor’s tests alone. Taking the median frame time seems reasonable, but I am not sure if manually walking through a set path is controlled enough for the 0.3 ms margins we’re talking about. Plus, we haven’t seen any indication that the networks are different elsewhere. It’s an interesting possibility for the sake of discussion though.

(edited heavily to reorganize paragraphs and improve clarity)

Add to it the graphs that I made comparing the performance of them and it muddies the waters. It’s possible that the trained more than one which they use for the automotive AI business and it just so happened to work with the gaming side. In Automotive i can see why they would train more than 1 for its purposes since it is a very tightly regulated industry, and considering how their SoCs have tensor cores on top of having a dedicated DLA (Deep Learning Accelerator) it could be that it has more than one trained for these occasions.

NVDLA Primer — NVDLA Documentation

Here it goes more in-depth at the DLA if you’re curious.

Those FF games are only timed exclusives aren’t they? They’ll come to Switch as soon as the hardware can handle them as long as the timed deal is over. Hardly a ‘yeah no lol’ scenario.

Not if they get extended exclusivity deal besides being a moneyhatted title , this is Sony and they are playing those cards this time around. They are more defensive against MS and the Series consoles for the games that MS cares about, aka the triple A Japanese games like FF, RE, FromSoft stuff, etc. they don’t really see Nintendo as a direct comp world wide, and they are already alienating the smaller Japanese studios which they do not want to represent the vision of the brand which is supposed to be “Prestige of the blockbuster caliber in a variety of options”

They probably don’t expect the next switch to be a troublesome competition directly, as they already hold the AAA software in PS in japan.

How long is it since devkits for Dane have been out? 8 months? Is it unusual to not have any leaks on specs at this point? Comparing to Sony and MS? I know NDAs are in place and professional devs aren’t looking to jeopardize their careers for internet clout. But I figured we’d get something at this point, even if it’s not final.

It’s pre-silicon right now, so hard to give an honest spec, no point in leaking what wouldn’t be there at the end.

 

[ArchedThunder]

I'm seriously hoping for one of the following
Nintendo Switch Ultra
Ultra Nintendo Switch
Nintendo Ultra Switch

Personally my favorite is Ultra Nintendo Switch.
I said it before, but Ultra is perfect on multiple levels. It avoids using a number, harkens back to Super Nintendo (and Ultra 64) and it describes the 4K functionality as 4K is referred to as Ultra HD.