StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation and Discussion |ST| "Oh Black Knight, Tape Me Out to Denmark!"

fwd-bwd

Piranha Plant
Founder
My first post here, and I'd like to collect my thoughts on this somewhat troubling assertion by SciresM:



Regarding the embedded driver, it's been pointed out by some that Nvidia employs a Unified Driver Architecture (UDA) that "allows one set of drivers to be used across the entire range of NVIDIA products—including consumer and workstation products". [Page 30]

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When asked, however, SciresM was adamant that it wouldn't work because the GPU driver embedded is "low level". 🤔



This brings me to the other issue raised by SciresM about "pre-compiled native shader assembly". Here Nvdia also possesses a seemingly relevant patent: Unified assembly instruction set for graphics processing
  • "[A] unified instruction set that allows shader programs of different types to use a common instruction set. The unified instruction set provides easy access for new graphics hardware features and faster compile times for shader programs written using the unified instruction set".
  • "Functions that use the unified instruction set may be included in shader, vertex, or geometry programs without modification. Existing shader programs written in high-level languages may be compiled to produce shader programs that use the unified instruction set."
  • "Shader programs written using the unified instruction set are assembled to produce shader microcode for execution by any graphics processors designed to support the unified instruction set." (emphasis mine)
7yxc6JH.png

If I understand this correctly (not an expert), it suggests that by using a unified assembly instruction set, the shader programs can be run on any GPUs that support the instruction set. However, I'm not sure if this patent has been used in any released products though—can't find any evidence online.
 

Tron1

Boo
Founder
Well for me you guys are the real mvps. Keep going! I think at minimum the next switch pro or whatever should be revealed by this time next year. If not there should be at least a good enough leak to where there is no more speculation.
 

Deleted User 1

Self-requested account removal
Dont hold your breath on a Switch 2 coming out anytime soon. The OLED Switch is essentially a relaunch of the Switch. Just look at how Nintendo is positioning themselves. The OLED is more expensive (that means more revenue growth) while the regular Switch is keeping its price. This is done to extend the Switch's life financially. Also... BOTW2, Splatoon 3 and a major Mario game is coming next year. IMO the Mario game is going to "sell" the Mario movie. Sounds a lot like 2017 huh? In other words Nintendo is setting up for a repeat of 2017 in 2022. All I'm seeing here is Nintendo hedging their bets just in case things go wrong (it wont) and that is what all this speculation and specs is based on. If the Switch in 2022 outsells the Switch in 2021, all bets are off for the Switch 2 anytime soon.
 

Deleted User 1

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Oh and one more thing, if Nintendo was planning to unveil a Switch 2 next year or in 2023, they would be stripping features from the regular Switch and selling it at a cheaper price, but they are doing the opposite.
 

Pokemaniac

Caught: 898
Founder
My first post here, and I'd like to collect my thoughts on this somewhat troubling assertion by SciresM:



Regarding the embedded driver, it's been pointed out by some that Nvidia employs a Unified Driver Architecture (UDA) that "allows one set of drivers to be used across the entire range of NVIDIA products—including consumer and workstation products". [Page 30]

KiWMsg5.png

US08463951-20130611-D00006.png
US08463951-20130611-D00007.png

When asked, however, SciresM was adamant that it wouldn't work because the GPU driver embedded is "low level". 🤔



This brings me to the other issue raised by SciresM about "pre-compiled native shader assembly". Here Nvdia also possesses a seemingly relevant patent: Unified assembly instruction set for graphics processing
  • "[A] unified instruction set that allows shader programs of different types to use a common instruction set. The unified instruction set provides easy access for new graphics hardware features and faster compile times for shader programs written using the unified instruction set".
  • "Functions that use the unified instruction set may be included in shader, vertex, or geometry programs without modification. Existing shader programs written in high-level languages may be compiled to produce shader programs that use the unified instruction set."
  • "Shader programs written using the unified instruction set are assembled to produce shader microcode for execution by any graphics processors designed to support the unified instruction set." (emphasis mine)
7yxc6JH.png

If I understand this correctly (not an expert), it suggests that by using a unified assembly instruction set, the shader programs can be run on any GPUs that support the instruction set. However, I'm not sure if this patent has been used in any released products though—can't find any evidence online.
I don't really think the embedded driver stuff is going to be an issue. It's not the full GPU driver, as evidenced by this page on switchbrew, and I think we can reasonably assume from how Nvidia's driver works on desktop (and the fact that no Switch games have broken yet despite the system driver presumably having been updated at least once) that there isn't a super tight coupling between the "user" and "system" pieces of the driver, and games using an older version isn't going to be a problem in and of itself.

That said, the shader incompatibilities are probably something that ultimately will have to be addressed, but I'm not super worried about Nvidia's ability to do that. They've got a much easier problem to solve than emulators do, since the output shader ISA is known, and are able to modify the hardware itself to make their job easier if necessary.
Dont hold your breath on a Switch 2 coming out anytime soon. The OLED Switch is essentially a relaunch of the Switch. Just look at how Nintendo is positioning themselves. The OLED is more expensive (that means more revenue growth) while the regular Switch is keeping its price. This is done to extend the Switch's life financially. Also... BOTW2, Splatoon 3 and a major Mario game is coming next year. IMO the Mario game is going to "sell" the Mario movie. Sounds a lot like 2017 huh? In other words Nintendo is setting up for a repeat of 2017 in 2022. All I'm seeing here is Nintendo hedging their bets just in case things go wrong (it wont) and that is what all this speculation and specs is based on. If the Switch in 2022 outsells the Switch in 2021, all bets are off for the Switch 2 anytime soon.
We have rumors from reliable sources that Nvidia has a new chip in development for Nintendo and at this point there isn't any reason to think it won't be ready to go around the same time as its bigger brother will be next year. Combine that with persistent rumors of devkits (which probably aren't coming from nowhere if even the big financial papers are talking about them), and that paints a picture of Nintendo currently planning to launch a new system in the next year or so. While it's clear that Nintendo wants to keep the current Switch going for a while, there's no reason why a substantial portion of their 2022 lineup couldn't also serve as the launch lineup for a new system as well.
 

Deleted User 1

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We have rumors from reliable sources that Nvidia has a new chip in development for Nintendo and at this point there isn't any reason to think it won't be ready to go around the same time as its bigger brother will be next year. Combine that with persistent rumors of devkits (which probably aren't coming from nowhere if even the big financial papers are talking about them), and that paints a picture of Nintendo currently planning to launch a new system in the next year or so. While it's clear that Nintendo wants to keep the current Switch going for a while, there's no reason why a substantial portion of their 2022 lineup couldn't also serve as the launch lineup for a new system as well.

First let me make this clear. I don't believe anything that comes out of Bloomberg. Second, Nintendo (and any hardware maker) are always doing R&D. So Switch 2 being in development isn't surprising. The question is "when is the Switch 2 coming out"? IMO, if it was coming soon, Nintendo would NOT be improving the regular Switch (OLED screen, better kickstand etc.) and selling it for a higher price. They would leave those features (like the OLED) for the Switch 2. Again, if the Switch 2 was coming soon, Nintendo would be making the current Switch less attractive (removing features) to make the new console to be released soon, as attractive as possible. They are clearly not doing this, so its clear to me that they are taking the Gameboy strategy with the Switch where we are going to have a long, long generation.

As for rumors, I take all of them with a HUGE grain of salt. I don't think anyone really knows what is going on in Kyoto except the higher ups. Nintendo's headquarters is like Area 51. :LOL: Also, were there any rumors about Ring Fit Adventure or Game Builder Garage being in development before they were announced? :unsure:
 

Alovon11

Tektite
Pronouns
He/Them
First let me make this clear. I don't believe anything that comes out of Bloomberg. Second, Nintendo (and any hardware maker) are always doing R&D. So Switch 2 being in development isn't surprising. The question is "when is the Switch 2 coming out"? IMO, if it was coming soon, Nintendo would NOT be improving the regular Switch (OLED screen, better kickstand etc.) and selling it for a higher price. They would leave those features (like the OLED) for the Switch 2. Again, if the Switch 2 was coming soon, Nintendo would be making the current Switch less attractive (removing features) to make the new console to be released soon, as attractive as possible. They are clearly not doing this, so its clear to me that they are taking the Gameboy strategy with the Switch where we are going to have a long, long generation.

As for rumors, I take all of them with a HUGE grain of salt. I don't think anyone really knows what is going on in Kyoto except the higher ups. Nintendo's headquarters is like Area 51. :LOL: Also, were there any rumors about Ring Fit Adventure or Game Builder Garage being in development before they were announced? :unsure:
Well, the thing is about the rumors mostly guiding this discussion, they aren't actually Nintendo rumors.

They are NVIDIA Rumours.
NVIDIA is the supplier of the SoC (System on Chip) for Nintendo's Switch systems and office is in a partnership with NVIDIA for at least 10 years after the OG Switch came out.

And the thing is, the guy who leaked all of NVIDIA's Ampere GPUs (Kopite7Kimi), stated explicitly that NVIDIA and Nintendo are working on an SoC together based on NVIDIA's Orin ARM SoC with the Internal Code number of T239, and Codename of "Dane".

And with Kopite's track record, when he talks about a project from NVIDIA, the project is either coming and if it isn't, it is more likely that it got canceled at some point after Kopite's statement on said project comes out versus Kopite's rumor being wrong.

And based on what Kopite7 has said, and how production plans work...the only time for T239 to releasing come out is 2022.

Otherwise, it is too late, and would be better off getting redesigned for Samsung or TSMC 5nm rather than Orin's parent Samsung 8nm process.

So when Kopite7 commented on Dane/T239 earlier this Year, that means that Nintendo and NVIDIA 100% started with the intention of releasing in 2021/2022 based on how production for things like that works.

The question becomes will they hit a 2022 release, or be forced to Price-Drop an outdated 8nm Dane, or redesign Dane in record time to run on TSMC/Samsung 5nm.
 

Deleted User 1

Self-requested account removal
Well, the thing is about the rumors mostly guiding this discussion, they aren't actually Nintendo rumors.

They are NVIDIA Rumours.
NVIDIA is the supplier of the SoC (System on Chip) for Nintendo's Switch systems and office is in a partnership with NVIDIA for at least 10 years after the OG Switch came out.

And the thing is, the guy who leaked all of NVIDIA's Ampere GPUs (Kopite7Kimi), stated explicitly that NVIDIA and Nintendo are working on an SoC together based on NVIDIA's Orin ARM SoC with the Internal Code number of T239, and Codename of "Dane".

And with Kopite's track record, when he talks about a project from NVIDIA, the project is either coming and if it isn't, it is more likely that it got canceled at some point after Kopite's statement on said project comes out versus Kopite's rumor being wrong.

And based on what Kopite7 has said, and how production plans work...the only time for T239 to releasing come out is 2022.

Otherwise, it is too late, and would be better off getting redesigned for Samsung or TSMC 5nm rather than Orin's parent Samsung 8nm process.

So when Kopite7 commented on Dane/T239 earlier this Year, that means that Nintendo and NVIDIA 100% started with the intention of releasing in 2021/2022 based on how production for things like that works.

The question becomes will they hit a 2022 release, or be forced to Price-Drop an outdated 8nm Dane, or redesign Dane in record time to run on TSMC/Samsung 5nm.

I dunno. 🤷‍♀️ To me "Dane" is just a leak from R&D that naturally happens at a hardware company. It could be just a chip they are testing. This whole "Dane" thing reminds me of the "Black Belt" or "Katana" Dreamcast. It doesn't really tell me when the Switch 2 is coming out. I'm not very knowledgeable of tech, but Nintendo's behavior hints to me that the Switch generation will be a very long one.
 

Pokemaniac

Caught: 898
Founder
First let me make this clear. I don't believe anything that comes out of Bloomberg. Second, Nintendo (and any hardware maker) are always doing R&D. So Switch 2 being in development isn't surprising. The question is "when is the Switch 2 coming out"? IMO, if it was coming soon, Nintendo would NOT be improving the regular Switch (OLED screen, better kickstand etc.) and selling it for a higher price. They would leave those features (like the OLED) for the Switch 2. Again, if the Switch 2 was coming soon, Nintendo would be making the current Switch less attractive (removing features) to make the new console to be released soon, as attractive as possible. They are clearly not doing this, so its clear to me that they are taking the Gameboy strategy with the Switch where we are going to have a long, long generation.

As for rumors, I take all of them with a HUGE grain of salt. I don't think anyone really knows what is going on in Kyoto except the higher ups. Nintendo's headquarters is like Area 51. :LOL: Also, were there any rumors about Ring Fit Adventure or Game Builder Garage being in development before they were announced? :unsure:
You're free to doubt rumors, but I'll just point out that none of the rumors that I was referring to would have come from Nintendo themselves. They're all from either 3rd party devs or Nvidia.

Regarding Switch OLED, Nintendo just doesn't do a whole lot of purely "negative" revisions to their handhelds. They do have some history of making revisions that improve things fairly close to the release of their successors, like the GBA SP or DSi XL or even to some degree the New 2DS XL.
I dunno. 🤷‍♀️ To me "Dane" is just a leak from R&D that naturally happens at a hardware company. It could be just a chip they are testing. This whole "Dane" thing reminds me of the "Black Belt" or "Katana" Dreamcast. It doesn't really tell me when the Switch 2 is coming out. I'm not very knowledgeable of tech, but Nintendo's behavior hints to me that the Switch generation will be a very long one.
The Switch continuing to last for a while and its successor releasing next year are not mutually exclusive things. Not only is that kind of just how consoles work now, but Nintendo even tried to do exactly the same thing with the 3DS. The strategy will probably just work a lot better this time because having full BC removes a lot of the downsides.
 

Tron1

Boo
Founder
Dont hold your breath on a Switch 2 coming out anytime soon. The OLED Switch is essentially a relaunch of the Switch. Just look at how Nintendo is positioning themselves. The OLED is more expensive (that means more revenue growth) while the regular Switch is keeping its price. This is done to extend the Switch's life financially. Also... BOTW2, Splatoon 3 and a major Mario game is coming next year. IMO the Mario game is going to "sell" the Mario movie. Sounds a lot like 2017 huh? In other words Nintendo is setting up for a repeat of 2017 in 2022. All I'm seeing here is Nintendo hedging their bets just in case things go wrong (it wont) and that is what all this speculation and specs is based on. If the Switch in 2022 outsells the Switch in 2021, all bets are off for the Switch 2 anytime soon.
I’ve been thinking about this today. What is the likelihood of them launching an OLED light version before the switch 2? Honestly I have said I think they could increase the clocks to around max and with OLED get more out of the system. Performance wise it is time for something to be done from them.
 

Deleted User 1

Self-requested account removal
I’ve been thinking about this today. What is the likelihood of them launching an OLED light version before the switch 2? Honestly I have said I think they could increase the clocks to around max and with OLED get more out of the system. Performance wise it is time for something to be done from them.

Are you talking about the OLED Switch Lite? That's a tough one to figure out. On the one hand it makes sense to make a OLED Lite as a natural evolution of the device, but on the other hand the Lite has NOT been selling as well as the regular model, so why pour more R&D into the Lite?
 

Pokemaniac

Caught: 898
Founder
I’ve been thinking about this today. What is the likelihood of them launching an OLED light version before the switch 2? Honestly I have said I think they could increase the clocks to around max and with OLED get more out of the system. Performance wise it is time for something to be done from them.
If they were going to boost clocks on Mariko, it would have happened years ago when the chip was first introduced. That possibility ended the second the red box hybrid Switch launched without a new name.
 

Tron1

Boo
Founder
Are you talking about the OLED Switch Lite? That's a tough one to figure out. On the one hand it makes sense to make a OLED Lite as a natural evolution of the device, but on the other hand the Lite has NOT been selling as well as the regular model, so why pour more R&D into the Lite?
Yeah I get it. I think actually this OLED version has some weight on it. If it doesn’t keep them afloat enough I think they they will drop the switch 2 or updated version sooner. I see no reason not to up the clocks to maximum speeds for developers though. especially with the Mariko chip it could run at max speed and get a performance boost and give developers and gamers alike a fresh breath. I don’t think the next iteration or switch 2 is going to lunch until March 23.
 

Tron1

Boo
Founder
If they were going to boost clocks on Mariko, it would have happened years ago when the chip was first introduced. That possibility ended the second the red box hybrid Switch launched without a new name.
Not necessarily. I think now is the perfect time. New dock, new screen, and enough pressure from competitors to add some performance to the system. Knowing Nintendo it won’t happen and it’s really sad it won’t.
 

Pokemaniac

Caught: 898
Founder
Not necessarily. I think now is the perfect time. New dock, new screen, and enough pressure from competitors to add some performance to the system. Knowing Nintendo it won’t happen and it’s really sad it won’t.
Nah, that's what Dane is for. Any boost to the clocks now would just raise questions about why it doesn't apply to red box Switches as well, because they're running literally the same chip, and retroactively raising the clocks on the red box Switches would just be an incredibly messy situation all around, because most people probably aren't even aware that there even are two versions of the LCD hybrid Switch. They made the decision back in 2019 that they wouldn't use Mariko for boosted performance, and they can't go back on it now without creating a huge mess in the process.

Also, Mariko can't run that much faster than Erista. It's not going to meaningfully close the gap between Switch and PS5/XS.
 

Skittzo

Chain Chomp
Founder
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He/Him
Also, were there any rumors about Ring Fit Adventure or Game Builder Garage being in development before they were announced? [BGCOLOR=rgb(41, 41, 41)]:unsure:[/BGCOLOR]
Yes to both. Most notably both were teased heavily by Emily Rogers. I believe RFA was teased by Nate Drake too.
 

Tron1

Boo
Founder
Nah, that's what Dane is for. Any boost to the clocks now would just raise questions about why it doesn't apply to red box Switches as well, because they're running literally the same chip, and retroactively raising the clocks on the red box Switches would just be an incredibly messy situation all around, because most people probably aren't even aware that there even are two versions of the LCD hybrid Switch. They made the decision back in 2019 that they wouldn't use Mariko for boosted performance, and they can't go back on it now without creating a huge mess in the process.

Also, Mariko can't run that much faster than Erista. It's not going to meaningfully close the gap between Switch and PS5/XS.
I respectfully disagree. There are many people on the net that have modded the OG switch. They have ran the clocks at full speed trying to get it to have heating and thermal issues. They haven’t been able to. Even if they make it available just for high end AAA third party developers. It’s just a dream of mine because imo there is no reason not to.
Studios have dev kits for a 4K Switch. That is not a matter of debate.
Good to hear. I’m down for whatever info you can give us. Personally I could care less about the “4K” switch now. The reality for “ME” is third party is king. A new “more powerful” switch wouldn’t excite me if a new COD or GTA isn’t available for it. They are the two best selling third party ips. Neither of them are available on switch which he been the best selling console the past 3 years. It’s unacceptable to me. So if a new more powerful switch doesn’t come with high end great selling third party content then I’m good.
 

fwd-bwd

Piranha Plant
Founder
There have been some discussions on Discord and ERA regarding the OLED Model's subpixel matrix. I'm going to summarize them below with my own comments. Please note that I'll refrain from using the terms "RGB stripe" and "PenTile" as their vernacular definitions can be murky.

This is the OLED Model's panel closeup, captured from Wulff Den's video, enlarged, and (slightly) keystone-corrected:
VdHfWHN.png


This is one of the so-called "S-Stripe" subpixel geometries (other variants here, here, and here), and AFAIK the closest—if not identical—subpixel arrangement can be found on the Lenovo X1 Yoga (source):
g77ET7m.png


This particular subpixel matrix offers IMHO several advantages and one drawback:

1. True 720p resolution: Unlike the dreaded RGBG geometries (many, many, variants), each pixel of the OLED Model consists of one R, one G, and one B subpixels, hence the real 720p resolution. By comparison, in a 2px by 2px matrix an RGBG panel contains only 8 subpixels while the OLED Model has 12.

2. Straight and sharp edges: Another complaint about OLED panel is the visually fuzzy edges when one of the diamond subpixel arrangements is used. This is seldom an issue if the display density is high, but for the OLED Model (relatively low 210 ppi) we dodged a bullet by having the rectangular S-Stripe geometry.

3. Brighter yet longer lifespan: As the brightness/heat increases, the OLED's lifespan decreases. Since the G subpixel is the most efficient, it is made larger than the B and R subpixels to increase the overall efficiency of the OLED panel (brighter for same power, or longer battery for same brightness) and also its lifespan (less heat than brightening the B or R).
  • Note 1: This is also the raison d'etre of the RGBG arrangements (two G subpixels for every B or R).
  • Note 2: Not sure why the B subpixel (the least efficient of the three) is elongated. Perhaps better heat dissipation?
4. Potential green tint: Because the G subpixels are larger and brighter than B and R, for those sensitive to green light this OLED display could appear with a subtle green tint, a similar disadvantage as the RGBG panels. For most people it should not be perceptible. EDIT: It seems that the images above underexposed the B subpixel, making it to appear skinnier than the actual width. So I retract this point.
 
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Pokemaniac

Caught: 898
Founder
I respectfully disagree. There are many people on the net that have modded the OG switch. They have ran the clocks at full speed trying to get it to have heating and thermal issues. They haven’t been able to. Even if they make it available just for high end AAA third party developers. It’s just a dream of mine because imo there is no reason not to.
There are plenty of reasons not to just arbitrarily boost clocks. Unless every unit was tested at those clocks in the factory, there's a non-zero risk that boosting them could brick a bunch of systems.

Also if GTA and COD are what you're looking for, those are probably skipping Switch for storage limitations more than anything else.
 

Tron1

Boo
Founder
There are plenty of reasons not to just arbitrarily boost clocks. Unless every unit was tested at those clocks in the factory, there's a non-zero risk that boosting them could brick a bunch of systems.

Also if GTA and COD are what you're looking for, those are probably skipping Switch for storage limitations more than anything else.
Again no issue I stick with OLED and I’m okay with doom eternal and crysis.
 
Oh and one more thing, if Nintendo was planning to unveil a Switch 2 next year or in 2023, they would be stripping features from the regular Switch and selling it at a cheaper price, but they are doing the opposite.
I don’t really agree with this train of thought, unless we view it in a vacuum perspective. Even then, there is more of a precedent where they add a feature to a revision than strip it.

In this case, if the next model will be a whole new chip(it could just as easily be the following model), then nothing rules out that it could be sharing components with the OLED model to reduce costs as much as possible by starting the process early. This case would be the dock, the screen, the stand and the casing for the machine as the bare minimum that could be shared where with the next model they can worry about the chip and not about the casing, the dock, the screen, the dock and the stand. Plus worry about the delineating branding on the back of the device to make it obvious.


They have done this with the DSI and the 3DS where it shares some parts and even the charger is shared between them.


And whether you consider in this case the Switch 2 and Switch Pro to be different hardware, it is up to you, but hardware wise they would be the same product positioned in different ways.
I respectfully disagree. There are many people on the net that have modded the OG switch. They have ran the clocks at full speed trying to get it to have heating and thermal issues. They haven’t been able to. Even if they make it available just for high end AAA third party developers. It’s just a dream of mine because imo there is no reason not to.
there’s an issue with this, while you can boost the GPU and the CPU high enough where it is slightly weaker than the PS4 CPU, the memory constraints would be even more severe for the system, as with GPU and CPU boost you need the memory and memory bandwidth to also scale with those to make it a worthwhile investment to do. It’s not a linear scale mind you.
 

Jersh

Moblin
Developer
First let me make this clear. I don't believe anything that comes out of Bloomberg.
You're free to do so, but don't expect dismissal of one of the more respected sources in the industry to be a popular take in here.
The question is "when is the Switch 2 coming out"? IMO, if it was coming soon, Nintendo would NOT be improving the regular Switch (OLED screen, better kickstand etc.) and selling it for a higher price. They would leave those features (like the OLED) for the Switch 2. Again, if the Switch 2 was coming soon, Nintendo would be making the current Switch less attractive (removing features) to make the new console to be released soon, as attractive as possible.
This seems to be a sentiment rooted in a very small sample size of older Nintendo systems; mainly the Wii mini and Game Boy Micro. The thing is, in this day and age, the release of a successor does not automatically mark the death of its predecessor; see all the PS4 and Xbox One titles still releasing. Nintendo could intentionally drag out support for the current Switch even longer if they wished, which leads me into:
They are clearly not doing this, so its clear to me that they are taking the Gameboy strategy with the Switch where we are going to have a long, long generation.
This strategy and releasing a successor in 1-2 years are not mutually exclusive things. Nintendo could release a new device next year and still be supporting the current Switch with major releases in 3 years, if they really wanted - and there's valid reasons to do this.

Not necessarily. I think now is the perfect time. New dock, new screen, and enough pressure from competitors to add some performance to the system. Knowing Nintendo it won’t happen and it’s really sad it won’t.
If they were boosting performance on the OLED model they'd have advertised it already - even if it was just for select upcoming games.
I respectfully disagree. There are many people on the net that have modded the OG switch. They have ran the clocks at full speed trying to get it to have heating and thermal issues. They haven’t been able to.
That's outright false.
Source: I own and overclocked a modded OG Switch.
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Pronouns
He/Him
And based on what Kopite7 has said, and how production plans work...the only time for T239 to releasing come out is 2022.

Otherwise, it is too late, and would be better off getting redesigned for Samsung or TSMC 5nm rather than Orin's parent Samsung 8nm process.

So when Kopite7 commented on Dane/T239 earlier this Year, that means that Nintendo and NVIDIA 100% started with the intention of releasing in 2021/2022 based on how production for things like that works.

The question becomes will they hit a 2022 release, or be forced to Price-Drop an outdated 8nm Dane, or redesign Dane in record time to run on TSMC/Samsung 5nm.
Due to the chip shortage I think it’s pretty obvious it’ll come in 2023. I don’t see why that would be an issue either, especially when the Switch launched with a relatively old chip. Even more so if this is actual custom silicon made specifically for Nintendo. I am really confused as to why you think it being pushed back 4-12 months would mean they have to do a price drop.
 

Deleted User 1

Self-requested account removal
You're free to do so, but don't expect dismissal of one of the more respected sources in the industry to be a popular take in here.

This seems to be a sentiment rooted in a very small sample size of older Nintendo systems; mainly the Wii mini and Game Boy Micro. The thing is, in this day and age, the release of a successor does not automatically mark the death of its predecessor; see all the PS4 and Xbox One titles still releasing. Nintendo could intentionally drag out support for the current Switch even longer if they wished, which leads me into:

This strategy and releasing a successor in 1-2 years are not mutually exclusive things. Nintendo could release a new device next year and still be supporting the current Switch with major releases in 3 years, if they really wanted - and there's valid reasons to do this.

I don't expect dismissal from anyone else, its just that I DO NOT trust Bloomberg. I'm just making that clear. I dont think Nintendo looks to Xbox or Playstation as a baseline for their own business model. Why would they start now? Again, why not leave the OLED screen for the successor? Why release it for the current model? And also something that nobody has commented on, why raise the price of the regular Switch and upgrade it with features that could be held back for a successor? The only way this makes sense to me is if what Nintendo is working on is a stationary unit.
 

Jersh

Moblin
Developer
And also something that nobody has commented on, why raise the price of the regular Switch and upgrade it with features that could be held back for a successor?
To make more money now because they couldn't get the successor out this year. If we're to believe they were trying to get a new device out this year (that comes from more than just Bloomberg), it also stands to reason they'd already done most of the legwork for the improved screen, kickstand, etc.; simply releasing those with the old chip was likely pretty easy to do.

But also, not everyone's calling the speculated device a successor. It's been likened many times to the very Game Boy model you spoke of, specifically the Game Boy Color.
 

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To make more money now because they couldn't get the successor out this year. If we're to believe they were trying to get a new device out this year (that comes from more than just Bloomberg), it also stands to reason they'd already done most of the legwork for the improved screen, kickstand, etc.; simply releasing those with the old chip was likely pretty easy to do.

But also, not everyone's calling the speculated device a successor. It's been likened many times to the very Game Boy model you spoke of, specifically the Game Boy Color.

Still skeptical. They could have raised the price of the regular Switch without changing anything and it still would have sold well. To me this looks like Nintendo realized that there is more demand for the regular Switch than the Switch Lite even though the regular one more expensive, and they are taking full advantage of that. IMO they overestimated the demand for the Lite and lost potential revenue due to that mistake and they are correcting for that mistake by making another dockable Switch (OLED) to co exist with the regular one to boost revenue and demand. IIRC, the drop for the Switch YOY mostly happened because of a lack of demand for the Lite version. This is why I predict the OLED Switch is going to boost the Switch massively in sales.
 
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The GameBoy was their first foray into the iterative move, but whether you consider the device in question a pro or a successor, or both, is up to you as hardware wise they are not different devices and will presumably do the same role.
 

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Just to make things more clear, I don't really look at rumors, I look at the current behavior of a company and the way they are positioning themselves for the future and it looks to me that a Switch 2 wont come out anytime soon. This "Dane" thing looks to me like something that will go into a stationary device. Probably a Switch Dock that can run or upscale Switch games in 4k? :unsure:
 

bellydrum

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Still skeptical. They could have raised the price of the regular Switch without changing anything and it still would have sold well. To me this looks like Nintendo realized that there is more demand for the regular Switch than the Switch Lite even though it is more expensive, and they are taking full advantage of that. IMO they overestimated the demand for the Lite and lost potential revenue due to that mistake and they are correcting for that mistake by making another dockable Switch (OLED) to co exist with the regular one to boost revenue and demand. IIRC, the drop for the Switch YOY mostly happened because of a lack of demand for the Lite version. This is why I predict the OLED Switch is going to boost the Switch massively in sales.
That's okay that you're skeptical - nobody here is trying to convince you of anything, remember that. If you read the OP, it tells readers to take everything with a huge grain of salt.

Everyone here is skeptical. We're just operating under an agreement that everything is taken as speculation, so we don't have to clarify that in every post

It should be noted that any rumours in this thread should be taken with a huge grain of salt, including rumours from reputable insiders and sources. Plans can and do change, so there's a good chance rumours can turn out to be wrong.
 

Dardan Sandiego

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Dont just say that. Provide a source. Show me the "tease".

GBG tease:

RFA was a bit complicated. Back in 2019 Emily made a list of unannounced games which slowly filled up but she didn't tease RFA specifically (unless she did and I missed it) but she talked more about the game when the first trailer hit which only featured the ring-con and no gameplay.


 
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SiG

Octorok
Has anybody done an extensive teardown on the dock?

Will we see Steve from Gamers Nexus do the teardown?
 

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This is the "looking at rumors" thread JSYK

I know, but the whether or not the "Dane" is a Switch 2 or a powered up dock or a separate stand alone console intrigues me. Maybe I should have clarified "I dont really look at rumors from Bloomberg." 😁 The Kopite one is interesting to me.
 

Deleted User 1

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GBG tease:

RFA was a bit complicated. Back in 2019 Emily made a list of unannounced games which slowly filled up but she didn't tease RFA specifically but she talked more about the game when the first trailer hit which only featured the ring-con and no gameplay.



Thank you. 👍
 

Pokemaniac

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I know, but the whether or not the "Dane" is a Switch 2 or a powered up dock or a separate stand alone console intrigues me. Maybe I should have clarified "I dont really look at rumors from Bloomberg." 😁 The Kopite one is interesting to me.
What exactly do you have against Bloomberg? Bloomberg, and specifically Mochizuki, are generally one of the most trusted sources for stuff like this, so to see you doubt them specifically raises questions about why. They're also not the only ones saying that devkits are out, they just receive a lot of focus because their report is the most recent one and they're also viewed as one of the more trustworthy sources in general.
 

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What exactly do you have against Bloomberg? Bloomberg, and specifically Mochizuki, are generally one of the most trusted sources for stuff like this, so to see you doubt them specifically raises questions about why. They're also not the only ones saying that devkits are out, they just receive a lot of focus because their report is the most recent one and they're also viewed as one of the more trustworthy sources in general.

I'll just say I dont trust financial based media, (Bloomberg, CNBC, etc.) because of 2008 and leave it at that.
 

Pokemaniac

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I'll just say I dont trust financial based media, (Bloomberg, CNBC, etc.) because of 2008 and leave it at that.
I'm really not sure how that relates to the subject at hand in a way that would affect their credibility, but if you've held that grudge for that long nothing I say will probably change it.

Regardless, like I said before, Bloomberg is not the only place that's been reporting on the "4k" devkits. We've got NateDrake in this very thread who's been hearing similar things and is currently gathering more information since this article probably made people more willing to speak about it.
 

Z0m3le

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I'm really not sure how that relates to the subject at hand in a way that would affect their credibility, but if you've held that grudge for that long nothing I say will probably change it.

Regardless, like I said before, Bloomberg is not the only place that's been reporting on the "4k" devkits. We've got NateDrake in this very thread who's been hearing similar things and is currently gathering more information since this article probably made people more willing to speak about it.
And Nate disagreed with Bloomberg's report about a switch pro coming this holiday, publically in his own podcast said that while Bloomberg is a legit source for leaks, that his own sources were saying that the device was targeting next year and the exclusive (on the DLSS model but not current Switch model) games he knew were in development were targeting next holiday.

So he isn't jumping from one rumor to the next, he has his own separate sources that he trusted beyond Bloomberg. That is about as trust worthy as insiders get, no one gets stuff right 100% of the time, but Nate has been very careful with what he publically backs or leaks.
 

Lelouch0612

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I'll mention again something I did plently of times, but software will tell you the most about when Nintendo intends to release this device.

I am almost 100% sure than Dane won't launch after BotW2 for instance.
 
Just to make things more clear, I don't really look at rumors, I look at the current behavior of a company and the way they are positioning themselves for the future and it looks to me that a Switch 2 wont come out anytime soon. This "Dane" thing looks to me like something that will go into a stationary device. Probably a Switch Dock that can run or upscale Switch games in 4k? :unsure:
You can’t have a dock that upscale games and plays them.

And we know it’s for a portable device. According to insiders.

Though you can remain properly skeptical on when it releases as that’s debatable if late 2022, early 2023 or late 2023.

maybe early 2024
 

Deleted User 1

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You can’t have a dock that upscale games and plays them.

And we know it’s for a portable device. According to insiders.

I just did some digging....

"Switch SCD to potentially have 8GB ram, 3.5 teraflop 1060 class gpu"​

This is a rumor from a then trusted source??? There were rumors of a Switch Dock with its own GPU from as far back as 2017. It was based on a Foxconn leak. So cant we see that show up eventually or was that rumor wrong?
 

Skittzo

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I just did some digging....

"Switch SCD to potentially have 8GB ram, 3.5 teraflop 1060 class gpu"​

This is a rumor from a then trusted source??? There were rumors of a Switch Dock with its own GPU from as far back as 2017. It was based on a Foxconn leak. So cant we see that show up eventually or was that rumor wrong?

You're conflating a rumor with a patent. The SCD was a patent that had embodiments with that kind of processing on it, as far as I know there hasn't been a rumor from any reliable source indicating they were going to launch a device covered by this patent.

A "'pro dock" is possible, but not with the original Switch since there's not enough bandwidth available through the USB-C port. That might not be the case with the OLED Switch though, who knows. But in any case it would be very expensive.

A "pro dock" that uses DLSS (or any other hardware accelerated machine learning upscaling) is, on the other hand, impossible. The tensor cores which perform the ML function have to be on the same die as the GPU.
 

Deleted User 1

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You're conflating a rumor with a patent. The SCD was a patent that had embodiments with that kind of processing on it, as far as I know there hasn't been a rumor from any reliable source indicating they were going to launch a device covered by this patent.

A "'pro dock" is possible, but not with the original Switch since there's not enough bandwidth available through the USB-C port. That might not be the case with the OLED Switch though, who knows. But in any case it would be very expensive.

A "pro dock" that uses DLSS (or any other hardware accelerated machine learning upscaling) is, on the other hand, impossible. The tensor cores which perform the ML function have to be on the same die as the GPU.

I could have sworn that I saw rumors pushed by reputable insiders that there will be a dock upgrade with its own GPU. Let me look some more. 🧐
 


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