• Hey Guest! As we are sure you are aware, Russia has invaded Ukraine. Check out our pinned thread in the Roost for resources on how to support Ukraine in their ongoing crisis. Let's show our solidarity with the Ukrainian people!


StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation and Discussion |ST|: Nate Drake, is this a new thread or a revision of the previous thread?

Shiba

Tektite
Pronouns
Male
I hope they do update last gen games with improved framerate and resolution once drake comes out because after today’s direct…..Xenoblade 3 needs one badly.
 

Bosintang

Shriekbat
I’m team cross gen for MK. That 100+ million install base will be to tempting.

I would have agreed if MK8 didn't receive a DLC (which absolutely no one predicted, expected, or hinted at).
After feeding us for 2 straight years with classic Mario Kart stuff on the og switch, I believe that the next entry will be different enough to be made as an exclusive and incite people to transition to the new generation of switch.
 

Shiba

Tektite
Pronouns
Male
Would Nintendo/Nvidia accept to sell Drake at a loss or is that absolutely out of question?
Nintendo usually doesn’t sell their consoles at a loss, which is also a thing where people expect them to cheap out on hardware as a result.
 
This possibility is so unlikely that I do not believe that it should be entertained beyond making jokes.
Well, is good to know that it's almost discarded so I manage my expectations, but I still think that something based on the Nvidia Shell form factor would be easy to develop and sell. Anyway, I'll try to not mention that idea anymore #Teamhomeconsole lol
 

Mendinso

Shriekbat
Pronouns
He/Him
Would Nintendo/Nvidia accept to sell Drake at a loss or is that absolutely out of question?

It's not entirely out of the question, but historically Nintendo has tried to avoid this. This is why most people have been hesitant about them considering it. It's also important to mention that right now is the way costs have been going up on both manufacturing and shipping the units is what might make Nintendo consider taking a loss. However, they make it up through the usual (software sales, licensing fees from 3rd parties, etc.).

It should also be noted Nintendo had a much lower profit margin for the launch of the OLED model because of costs of shipping and method of shipping they used. I'd imagine this would be taken into consideration for the Drake launch when that occurs.

That said, even if Nintendo does operate on a hardware loss per unit, much like other console manufacturers tend to do (usually impacts them the first year or two), they can make it up in software sales and licensing fees. Bigger question is how low is too low for Nintendo. We'll definitely have a better idea whenever Nintendo announces it, prices it, launch happens, and their investor reports on this to see how this pans out.
 

Kenka

Boo
Pronouns
He/Him
Would Nintendo/Nvidia accept to sell Drake at a loss or is that absolutely out of question?
It isn't out of question. However, Nintendo makes a buckload of money out of hardware and it represents a third of their revenue. I am not sure about its contribution to operating income but it isn't negative.

Hence, unless their business plan evolves (read, if they make more money out of IP and digital) I don't see them sell hardware at a loss.
 

ILikeFeet

Manakete
SMO3 will be Drake exclusive. I keep telling people to follow the software. BOTW3, Pokémon gen 10 in 2025 (which is conveniently about 2 years after Drake- when the new lite would launch), the next animal crossing and Mario Kart. The earliest some of these titles will come is late 2024.

But the hardware will need to have launches before then to give time to build an install base.
Pokemon Gen 10

Now with ray traced shadows

Game Freak pls
 

Mobius

Rattata
Nintendo wouldn't but if Nvidia is attempting to use it as a trojan horse for DLSS then they might.
Nvidia making an offer to Nintendo for "DLSS" and "RTX" doesn't sound stupid as Nvidia seem to be really pushy when it comes to their GPU tech, but then would it be realistic?
 

ILikeFeet

Manakete
Nvidia making an offer to Nintendo for "DLSS" and "RTX" doesn't sound stupid as Nvidia seem to be really pushy when it comes to their GPU tech, but then would it be realistic?
that's how these designs get sold. hell, Nintendo is working on their own AI upscaling, so someone's already a believer. pushing into RT isn't that unusual for Nintendo. what people get wrong is the idea that nintendo doesn't push new features when they always have
 

Mobius

Rattata
that's how these designs get sold. hell, Nintendo is working on their own AI upscaling, so someone's already a believer. pushing into RT isn't that unusual for Nintendo. what people get wrong is the idea that nintendo doesn't push new features when they always have
Are you talking about the patent from NERD? didn't they dropped their own implementation in favor of DLSS?

Unrelated to in-game upsacling, but those video clips from the Mario Collection were kinda fuzzy/blurry
 

ILikeFeet

Manakete
Are you talking about the patent from NERD? didn't they dropped their own implementation in favor of DLSS?

Unrelated to in-game upsacling, but those video clips from the Mario Collection were kinda fuzzy/blurry
Where have you heard that? In any case, there's no way of knowing. All we know is that they, at least, looked into making their own algorithm
 

Skittzo

Pikmin
Founder
Pronouns
He/Him
FamiGold
13
Are you talking about the patent from NERD? didn't they dropped their own implementation in favor of DLSS?

Unrelated to in-game upsacling, but those video clips from the Mario Collection were kinda fuzzy/blurry
There's no indication that they dropped anything. The patent spec says their method can even utilize tensor cores, it's very possible they'll be using their method for some games.
 

Mobius

Rattata
Where have you heard that? In any case, there's no way of knowing. All we know is that they, at least, looked into making their own algorithm
I think someone here (or back from where this discussion happened on resetera) theorized that they dropped it because those were from 2019 and Nintendo could just have used DLSS which was the new shiny thing. Of course not trying to spread misinformation but is there a reason why they'd use their own tech instead of DLSS? I'd be suprised if they somehow managed to develop something superior.
 

ILikeFeet

Manakete
I think someone here (or back from where this discussion happened on resetera) theorized that they dropped it because those were from 2019 and Nintendo could just have used DLSS which was the new shiny thing. Of course not trying to spread misinformation but is there a reason why they'd use their own tech instead of DLSS? I'd be suprised if they somehow managed to develop something superior.
they'd own it and can use it else where should the nuclear option be enacted. that has a lot of value
 

Foltzie

Cappy
Pronouns
he/him
I think someone here (or back from where this discussion happened on resetera) theorized that they dropped it because those were from 2019 and Nintendo could just have used DLSS which was the new shiny thing. Of course not trying to spread misinformation but is there a reason why they'd use their own tech instead of DLSS? I'd be suprised if they somehow managed to develop something superior.
Nintendo owning the tech would allow them to more easily implement BC going forward, otherwise they have to work with Nvidia or wait until parents expire to implement their own compatible solution. Being tied to 3rd party IP isn’t a show stopper, but a point of consideration.

DLSS of course has the benefit of being hardware driven, trading off some die space for more efficient results.
 

Hermii

Like Like
Pronouns
Hermii
Nintendo owning the tech would allow them to more easily implement BC going forward, otherwise they have to work with Nvidia or wait until parents expire to implement their own compatible solution. Being tied to 3rd party IP isn’t a show stopper, but a point of consideration.

DLSS of course has the benefit of being hardware driven, trading off some die space for more efficient results.
BC is a done deal no mater what without Nvidia. It will be enough of a pain to implement with the help of Nvidia..
 

Skittzo

Pikmin
Founder
Pronouns
He/Him
FamiGold
13
BC is a done deal no mater what without Nvidia. It will be enough of a pain to implement with the help of Nvidia..
I figure they were referring to enhanced BC through deep learning like we saw with Mario Sunshine.
 

Thraktor

Piranha Plant
Pronouns
He/Him
Nintendo owning the tech would allow them to more easily implement BC going forward, otherwise they have to work with Nvidia or wait until parents expire to implement their own compatible solution. Being tied to 3rd party IP isn’t a show stopper, but a point of consideration.

DLSS of course has the benefit of being hardware driven, trading off some die space for more efficient results.

Actually, I'd expect DLSS to have a pretty minor impact on backwards compatibility for future (post-Drake) devices. DLSS is effectively a black box, and the NVN2 API will have some DLSS-specific functions where you feed in all the necessary data (the low-res framebuffer, motion vectors, etc.) and it will feed back out a high-res framebuffer. What actually happens within that black box doesn't really matter for the game, so long as it spits out a framebuffer at the correct resolution within the expected time. Ideally you want it to be a nice sharp, detailed image without artefacts, but the game will still function regardless of how good a job DLSS does of generating the higher-resolution image.

What this means for a hypothetical non-Nvidia future device is that Nintendo would have to implement the DLSS functions of the NVN2 API (much as they would have to implement every other function of the NVN2 API), but there's no reason it would have to actually be DLSS, or anything like it, behind the scenes. So long as the game feeds the correct data in and gets a higher-res framebuffer out, they could use any other algorithm they like. And with the inputs to DLSS 2.0 and later being largely the same as the inputs required for other temporal upscaling approaches, like TAA, XeSS, FSR 2.0, etc., there's quite a bit of flexibility there to take whatever upscaling approach they like and use it in place of DLSS.
 

Mr Swine

Shriekbat
Pronouns
He
Pokemon Gen 10

Now with ray traced shadows

Game Freak pls

Ray traced shadows on 3DS Pokémon era trees 🤤

jk

I’m interested to see if games that have been tinkered on together with Switch Oc to get better graphics will be achieved on Drake
 
OP
OP
Dakhil

Dakhil

2010 experience points!
Founder
Speaking of DLSS, I wonder what are the percentages of games releasing on Nintendo's new hardware that's going to exclusively support DLSS 2.x, support DLSS 2.x and FSR 2.0, and exclusively support FSR 2.0.

In an interview with Tom's Hardware, Sam Naffziger from AMD implies RDNA 3 won't have dedicated AI accelerators (e.g. Tensor cores, Matrix engines); and adding dedicated AI accelerators to consumer GPUs isn't really necessary since RDNA and RDNA 2 already have FP16 support.
Besides the chiplet architecture, we gleaned a few other details about RDNA 3 from our conversation with Naffziger. We asked whether AMD would include some form of tensor core or matrix core in the architecture, similar to what both Nvidia and Intel are doing with their GPUs. He responded that the split between RDNA and CDNA means stuffing a bunch of specialized matrix cores into consumer graphics products really isn't necessary for the target market, plus the FP16 support that already exists in previous RDNA architectures should prove sufficient for inference-type workloads. We'll see if that proves correct going forward, but AMD seems content to leave the machine learning to its CDNA chips.
 

Hermii

Like Like
Pronouns
Hermii
Speaking of DLSS, I wonder what are the percentages of games releasing on Nintendo's new hardware that's going to exclusively support DLSS 2.x, support DLSS 2.x and FSR 2.0, and exclusively support FSR 2.0.

In an interview with Tom's Hardware, Sam Naffziger from AMD implies RDNA 3 won't have dedicated AI accelerators (e.g. Tensor cores, Matrix engines); and adding dedicated AI accelerators to consumer GPUs isn't really necessary since RDNA and RDNA 2 already have FP16 support.
Why would you possibly support both, when one is inferior?

I get supporting only fsr, because it works on every platform. But if you go through the hassle to implement dlss, why even make fsr an option?
 
OP
OP
Dakhil

Dakhil

2010 experience points!
Founder
Why would you possibly support both, when one is inferior?

I get supporting only fsr, because it works on every platform. But if you go through the hassle to implement dlss, why even make fsr an option?
I was thinking maybe third party developers want to simplify the process of porting games to PC to an extent by already having DLSS 2.x and FSR 2.0 support. (Although I admittedly don't know if that necessarily makes sense.)
 

ILikeFeet

Manakete
Ray traced shadows on 3DS Pokémon era trees 🤤

jk

I’m interested to see if games that have been tinkered on together with Switch Oc to get better graphics will be achieved on Drake
less for things like trees, and more for dynamic actors. though adding trees to the bvh isn't out of the question

36.jpg
33.jpg
 

Bosintang

Shriekbat
Well, is good to know that it's almost discarded so I manage my expectations, but I still think that something based on the Nvidia Shell form factor would be easy to develop and sell. Anyway, I'll try to not mention that idea anymore #Teamhomeconsole lo

You're of course free to believe it; there are also enjoyers of this topic who seem to entertain the idea that the new switch will be revealed within the next 15 days or so, which is not realistic for me either.

We don't know much; some could say that we even don't know anything. So anyone can get crazy with their speculation.
 

Serif

Boo
Pronouns
He/Him
Well, is good to know that it's almost discarded so I manage my expectations, but I still think that something based on the Nvidia Shell form factor would be easy to develop and sell. Anyway, I'll try to not mention that idea anymore #Teamhomeconsole lol
It would make more sense for them to develop Drake as the hybrid mobile device first, communicating clearly that it is a new and more powerful Switch, and then later on consider putting it in a handheld Lite / stationary TV device. Also, a docked Drake would fulfill the same purpose of being a game console that can play Switch games in 4K. There's your home console.
 
It would make more sense for them to develop Drake as the hybrid mobile device first, communicating clearly that it is a new and more powerful Switch, and then later on consider putting it in a handheld Lite / stationary TV device. Also, a docked Drake would fulfill the same purpose of being a game console that can play Switch games in 4K. There's your home console.
Home console Drake could be more powerful than docked Drake
 
Nintendo will not make such a thing, if a home console Switch/Drake exists will be as a budget option not a more expensive one.
I agree that a home console Switch would be cheaper, but it could still be more powerful if the new cooling solution is cheaper than the display of the portable console.
 

Blue Monty

Tingle
Pronouns
he/him
I agree that a home console Switch would be cheaper, but it could still be more powerful if the new cooling solution is cheaper than the display of the portable console.
It would also need to pay the R&D cost of such machine and would create more profiles that developers will be forced to develop for all for a really niche market that Nintendo probably doesn't care about catering to.
 
Food for thought
If Drake is not going to have major exclusives, why have we not seen the next 3D Mario by now? Odyssey released 4 and a half years ago. Seems weird that we have not seen anything about it or had anything leaked about it, unless they're keeping it under wraps for a new console launch. Even if the game is not ready for release yet, it should definitely be far enough along to tease right?
 

Hermii

Like Like
Pronouns
Hermii
Food for thought
If Drake is not going to have major exclusives, why have we not seen the next 3D Mario by now? Odyssey released 4 and a half years ago. Seems weird that we have not seen anything about it or had anything leaked about it, unless they're keeping it under wraps for a new console launch. Even if the game is not ready for release yet, it should definitely be far enough along to tease right?
Pandemic.
 
I find it very hard to believe that the pandemic has squeezed them that hard. Mario 3D World came out 4 years before Mario Odyssey, for comparison. I'm not saying the game should be coming out right now, but certainly we should be hearing about it. But we hear nothing. No teasing, no rumors, no leaks, nada. Over 4 years after the launch of Odyssey and nothing at all.
 

Blue Monty

Tingle
Pronouns
he/him
I find it very hard to believe that the pandemic has squeezed them that hard. Mario 3D World came out 4 years before Mario Odyssey, for comparison. I'm not saying the game should be coming out right now, but certainly we should be hearing about it. But we hear nothing. No teasing, no rumors, no leaks, nada. Over 4 years after the launch of Odyssey and nothing at all.
Galaxy released more than 5 years after Sunshine, 4-5 years for 3D Mario was already the usual pre-HD era now imagine with HD development + COVID.
 
Galaxy released more than 5 years after Sunshine, 4-5 years for 3D Mario was already the usual pre-HD era now imagine with HD development + COVID.
You're not comprehending my point. I never said the game should be out by now. What I said is we should have heard about it. Nintendo doesn't randomly dump out their biggest games. They're almost always announced/teased at least a year ahead of time, sometimes much further. The fact we aren't hearing about it yet means that unless it's an exclusive to a new console it's probably not coming until 2024 at least.
 

Pokemaniac

Caught: 905
Founder
I was thinking maybe third party developers want to simplify the process of porting games to PC to an extent by already having DLSS 2.x and FSR 2.0 support. (Although I admittedly don't know if that necessarily makes sense.)
Adoption remains to be seen, but there's an Nvidia library for easily supporting multiple algorithms.
 

My Tulpa

Octorok
Has been discussed the possibility of Drake being a home console, not portable?

Makes no sense for it to be a home console.

Would Nintendo/Nvidia accept to sell Drake at a loss or is that absolutely out of question?

There is no need for Nintendo to sell it for a loss.

There is no desire by Nintendo to get all Switch gamers to move to a 4K Switch system as quickly as possible.

Nintendo will position this as an optional Switch model for those who see the value in what it offers that the other models don’t. Similar to OLED and Lite.

You only take a loss on hardware sales if you are desperately trying to build up a new ecosystem model quickly, because that is were the future software/services will be prioritized as soon as possible. That isn’t the case here
 

Foltzie

Cappy
Pronouns
he/him
Actually, I'd expect DLSS to have a pretty minor impact on backwards compatibility for future (post-Drake) devices. DLSS is effectively a black box, and the NVN2 API will have some DLSS-specific functions where you feed in all the necessary data (the low-res framebuffer, motion vectors, etc.) and it will feed back out a high-res framebuffer. What actually happens within that black box doesn't really matter for the game, so long as it spits out a framebuffer at the correct resolution within the expected time. Ideally you want it to be a nice sharp, detailed image without artefacts, but the game will still function regardless of how good a job DLSS does of generating the higher-resolution image.

What this means for a hypothetical non-Nvidia future device is that Nintendo would have to implement the DLSS functions of the NVN2 API (much as they would have to implement every other function of the NVN2 API), but there's no reason it would have to actually be DLSS, or anything like it, behind the scenes. So long as the game feeds the correct data in and gets a higher-res framebuffer out, they could use any other algorithm they like. And with the inputs to DLSS 2.0 and later being largely the same as the inputs required for other temporal upscaling approaches, like TAA, XeSS, FSR 2.0, etc., there's quite a bit of flexibility there to take whatever upscaling approach they like and use it in place of DLSS.
Are there no concerns about patents related to DLSS?
 

My Tulpa

Octorok
Home console Drake could be more powerful than docked Drake

Nintendo does not want to divert software development between too separate consoles. (They did that, it’s no longer viable, they have moved on from that and are extremely successful for it)

The idea of a costly, super powerful home console-only Switch only makes sense to do if you want to make a bunch of games for it that simply wouldn’t work well on the portable versions.

Which means having to support two different console userbases again.

Why would they do that?
 

My Tulpa

Octorok
Food for thought
If Drake is not going to have major exclusives, why have we not seen the next 3D Mario by now? Odyssey released 4 and a half years ago. Seems weird that we have not seen anything about it or had anything leaked about it, unless they're keeping it under wraps for a new console launch. Even if the game is not ready for release yet, it should definitely be far enough along to tease right?

I garauntee you…any big 3D Mario/Zelda/DK/etc game they reveal and release in the next few years…is going to run on the OLED/Lite Switch.

Us not seeing a new 3D Mario game yet has nothing to do with Drake exclusivity.

I would imagine any 1st party exclusive that appears on Drake will be because of some unique gameplay function they get from DLSS/AI that simply couldn’t work without RT and tensor cores.

Drake is still going to be focusing on 540p/720p gaming profiles because that’s how it will run portable. It’s not like they are going to make MP4 4K/60fps only…they will be perfectly fine having a variable 720p/30fps version as well.

I think many don’t realize that the majority of the active Switch base will still be playing on the $300 and less models 3 years from now. Only a fraction will be on the $500 model.
 

MP!

Shriekbat
Nintendo does not want to divert software development between too separate consoles. (They did that, it’s no longer viable, they have moved on from that and are extremely successful for it)

The idea of a costly, super powerful home console-only Switch only makes sense to do if you want to make a bunch of games for it that simply wouldn’t work well on the portable versions.

Which means having to support two different console userbases again.

Why would they do that?
not really
its the same dev environment ... same compatibility just a different target profile
I garauntee you…any big 3D Mario/Zelda/DK/etc game they reveal and release in the next few years…is going to run on the OLED/Lite Switch.
Which means having to support two different console userbases again.

Why would they do that?
 

Instro

Tektite
Food for thought
If Drake is not going to have major exclusives, why have we not seen the next 3D Mario by now? Odyssey released 4 and a half years ago. Seems weird that we have not seen anything about it or had anything leaked about it, unless they're keeping it under wraps for a new console launch. Even if the game is not ready for release yet, it should definitely be far enough along to tease right?
I'd guess it's pandemic related, plus a lack of resources. Very possible that they were working on something else after Odyssey rather than jumping straight into the next Mario, and the combo of the pandemic plus not enough people has delayed both that project, and whatever is coming next for Mario.

I think the big recruitment expansion, new building, and the amount of money they are dedicated to all of that, is probably a good indicator that their software pipeline is not where they want it to be.

I do think there will be a first party exclusive to launch with this hardware, but probably not from their biggest staples.
 


Top Bottom