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StarTopic Emio - The Smiling Man: Famicom Detective Club |ST| The Great Sakamoto Chronicles

I'll be honest, I don't really think this series ever really got to a point where effective detective (rhymes) work can move the plot forward. You're getting railroaded, like it or not. Ultimately, while I think it may be a failure to not deliver on a promise such as that, I think more valuable is just that the story you uncover is interesting to think about. I'm OK with them not reinventing the wheel here as it pertains to detective work. That can be something they can invest in for a future entry possibly, but I think more interesting was just listening to dialogue and acting upon what you see alongside the characters. You don't have much of a failstate as it pertains to bad guesses but you are guided along through Tantei-kun's intuition (and Ayumi's as well.)

God, I could say more but honestly I just can't emphasize how much the epilogue wraps this thing up well. There is a much, much-needed emotional and thematic perspective applied to the mystery we uncover that turns my feelings on things like confusion at the paper bag placed on Eisuke's head from confusion and disappointment into some pretty deep and heart-wrenching feelings. When Sakamoto said the story "cuts right to the heart of what he wanted to tell from the start" it is ultimately a story about these deep themes.
This post reminds me: I have to come clean. Prior to this game's release?

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I did not care for The Smiling Man.

And that would soon change. (In a good way)
I tend to give a lot of credit and thought to the ideas presented by game/film/lit/etc creators I enjoy when I see something from them. I do this for most works I consume but I grew up in an age of people discussing gentrified tropes and worn-out cliches to the point where the moments and works that inspired these idiosyncrasies have been degraded in value to the current media generation. People watch Bride of Frankenstein and The Invisible Man and while those impacted the viewing public of their time (read: 90 years ago) when they had much more reduced expectations of what they would get from a film, to us today, who have seen everything, they don't tend to really land well. You need a buffer of consideration to sometimes come to terms with what an artist is trying to communicate, what they were thinking at the time. Honestly? It's eye-opening! Internet discourse does a lot to pollute your mind with strange concerns of what people do or don't think, and expectations shift with your own personal experience. To gain that perspective and allow yourself to have an earnest, knee-jerk reaction and rationalize those feelings is hard but worth it. It allows you to look at art across the board with such a vivid outlook. Thanks to all of this, I could understand the intent behind a lot of ideas creatives have had over the years, and it allowed me to separate what I thought worked well to what truly didn't.

I could not understand what was special about The Smiling Man.

On some level, the visual of a paper bag-wearing 6'7 (204cm where I'm from) murderer does have some clear level of fear factor attached but I couldn't bring myself to see what was special about it; what was scary about it. The crappily-drawn smile didn't really seal the deal, it was a very cheap way of representing a crude mind's interpretation of emotion, and all you could take away from it was that this guy who seems to think he can give people a smile forever is clearly mentally unstable (because he... can't draw faces well?) or he has a childish mind. If you think to what makes an urban legend truly gripping, I don't think he really does it, nor did the way the marketing painted that do it either. I don't think he was remotely unsalvageable either because I think the idea of the corpses with the paper bags on them is interesting, or the lack of a discreet figure, and I also think the idea of a paper bag motif being so universal has some elbow grease to be fascinating. I don't know, I think of how something like the Zodiac killer is genuinely scary because to be that elaborate and sadistic (to a point where we never got to any personal details of the supposed killer) is just objectively unnerving if you consider finding yourself in a vulnerable situation with him, and if you pare that to Emio, all you can say about him is that he gives people a smile forever because he kills them and they die and there's a paper bag with a crappy smile on it. I don't think they framed it well.

This epilogue though? Fuck man. FUCK, man. Emio was kind of interesting to track down over the course of the game, and I think it worked him better as an urban legend because you get unnerved thinking about the potential details as they're uncovered. But like... woof. That startling image of his father intimidating him, attempting to belittle his support for his sister, to break him down- an isolated child with no connection to the world around him being torn down by an apathetic monster- and then the ensuing tragedy. The paper bag visual is executed here a lot better because Minoru and Emiko are from a simpler life where they weren't really swept up in any sort of entertainment megaplex, so what they depict through art is as crude and real Human Emotion as it gets. It's really emotional because in that moment, you connect with how they entertain each other in simple ways. The story of Minoru and Emiko's connection is universal, because we all sympathize with what it's like to feel love so carnal and intuitive. That Minoru's abusive father is non-descript and perhaps generic, but provocative and horrendous nonetheless? It hits home with not just abusive familial relationships, but the horror you feel when those who hold hate in their heart excoriate and denigrate someone vulnerable; someone helpless to fight back.

What becomes of that excoriation is much more detailed. It does not hold back on telling you what becomes of a life where emotional apathy and pessimistic self-defensive instinct should take hold- to glamorize the hostility in society and propagate the view of some kind of rat race where vulnerability is not merely weakness, it is suicide, and salt must be rubbed in your wounds until they either don't ache or you die. Those who have this inflicted on them don't "adapt", they become corrupted. They shut themselves in until they become as poisoned as Minoru, who- even through the warm support of the Todoroki family- ultimately had his emotional development stunted and sense of self shrivel up until nothing was left. A monster was created. They were able to find Makoto at the end of the game, but Minoru died long ago, and in his place, a animalistic shell of a young boy took everyone in the same situation with him, wandering the streets and trying to make sense of whatever happened to him by chasing whatever glimmer of joy was left of what he had with Emiko and murdering a ton of children. Whoever "Minoru" was immolated so viscerally that he physically disfigured himself to a point where he wasn't even human anymore.

Just the visual on the Minoru title screen of the smile and the flower with the eye peering through the center is really irksome and invokes a sense of tragedy. It's a poignant visual because through the Junko/Makoto story, the source of the Minoru/Emiko tragedy comes through and disrupts their situation in much the same way. Junko is overcome with a need to act on her impulse, to uphold her dominance and to not just act, but specifically demonstrate her independence and command on her family. Her older, more experienced brother Makoto understands the good-natured intent behind this, and is able to look past it and understand who she is, because he knows what causes her aggression, and he knows it's meant well. When this is taken to a point where Junko exploits Makoto's goodwill and tears it down, they come face-to-face with the same tragedy, and so it spreads again.

I mentioned the Eisuke murder and how Minoru's involvement with it being a farce was kind of a letdown, but that was due to my expectations of the story coming together to make a point of a murderer like Emio suddenly coming back (and seemingly being more tact this time around by using wires. Perhaps a link between the visceral horror in a suicidal tragedy and the original murders? I mean, he did suffocate himself in a way that's more graphic than a noose when you think about it.) Instead, it took on a different angle, where the individual who lived through that breaking point made a decision to break from her shell, to exit her eternal modus operandi of scorching of others' missteps to feel like she could properly castigate hers. In a desperation move, she tries bringing some sense to the horror of why children in what should be optimistic lives with bright futures could end up in a murderous reality. It brings her, and us, through a trip of going through the carnally destructive and laborious feelings of loss are like.

TL;DR I mistook Emio for a character that would instill fear. While he could've, it was more important that this fear took a backseat to his most important mechanism: to depict tragedy. The story of The Smiling Man (within the context of the game more than the marketing tbh) instills fear, Minoru depicts tragedy.

It's not a perfect story and this isn't everything I wanted to go over but this is more-or-less a elaborate enough (you think so?) sampling of why this character makes this narrative so rich to think about.
 
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I wrapped up Emio tonight. I largely dug it and my favorite part of it was that it kept a lot of possibilities active throughout the game. I felt like I guessed a lot of things right and got a proper amount of swerves still too so I was satisfied with the main mystery.

I thought there were multiple Emios for a while so I called the twist Emio had captured Makoto and somehow trained or inspired him to be the next Emio. I thought Junko was heading to be some kind of accomplice as the tie in the box might have been a “gift” sent to upset her and maybe mark her as the next target, so the twist that Eisuke was a suicide was a proper swerve for me for example.

Since I’m in full spoilers, I found the epilogue hit and miss, but I did really dig they made a full anime movie out of it and uh yeah that’s where it earned its M rating. Yeesh!

I’ve sat on the game for a few hours since sitting down to write this post and one thing I thought was kind of funny as I’m getting distance from the game now is that before I played the game, I sort of imagined Emio only being some guy who lurked around in the shadows and would pop out of bushes and such. I didn’t expect Emio to have a car and while one of the cutscenes showed he didn’t drive around with the paper bag on when he was killing people and causing mischief, I do think it’s more funny to imagine he did that on occasion lol.

Clicking through options and the flow of conversations was better than prior games, though it was still clunky. The big problem I had with conversations were just two of the characters who both happened to get a lot of screen time I was regularly annoyed talking to, but one of them had a good turn around by the end. One thing I dug was discovering a lot of the ways you could inappropriately act during a scene and the game would let you do that like calling the office on your phone in the office or when you could call out to people who weren’t there and the game would have reactions for it. This added up to making it feel more game-like at times versus just going through a story which I appreciated.

Overall I dug the game and it’s currently shy of my top ten favorites for the year which I didn’t expect walking in. When I played the two remakes, I was curious what a modern one would be like and yeah this worked well for me even if it seems I’m not as wild about it as others here. I’d be more enthusiastically down for another one in comparison for sure, even if I’m not actively asking for one either.
 
"The late great Emio. Emio, The Smiling Man.... You know who that was, he'd like to give YOU🫵 a smile that lasts forever"
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Finally got the game the other night I'm on chapter 6 right now , I really like the characters especially the MC and the goofball he is
 
I’ve finished the game and noticed that in the music mode there is a song titled 'Game Over.' Does anyone know how to access the game over screen? Lol"
 
Ended up getting it digitally, may take a while for the physical version to appear here and I may get spoiled by some idiot or YouTube thumbnail if I don't play it soon enough.
 
Finally got the game the other night I'm on chapter 6 right now , I really like the characters especially the MC and the goofball he is
I'm also on Chapter 6 and really, really enjoying it. I'm really into the mystery, how slowly it unfolds meaning every hint feels like proper progress, and invested in all of the characters too. Desperately hoping we get more of these every few years.
 
I'm also on Chapter 6 and really, really enjoying it. I'm really into the mystery, how slowly it unfolds meaning every hint feels like proper progress, and invested in all of the characters too. Desperately hoping we get more of these every few years.
Yes at least 1 game per gen alternating yearly between other similar style games like trace memories or Hotel Dusk
 
Lol, remember when people were doomposting that Emio was going to be revealed to be some Bloober Team horror game?

Bloober wishes they could handle mature topics as sensitively as Emio.
 
Just beat the game. Really enjoyed it overall, would love to see another game.

So uh, are the Todorokis just gonna be mad at Tantei-kun for how Minoru truly turned out? That's never resolved in the story and is like the one missing conclusion to the game.
 
Just finished this last night... I gotta say, I really liked it! The mystery comes together in a pretty satisfying way and the whole epilogue segment caught me by surprise with how well it was done. Perhaps a bit over-the-top at times (really there's just one element that I would categorize as "over-the-top" and if you know, you know. I think it works well for what it is trying to convey, though...), but I also wouldn't say it's much more over-the-top than the previous two games, in my opinion.

I really thought Minoru's facial damage was the result of him setting the apartment on fire, so I was surprised to see what it actually was. Again, perhaps a bit much but it does a great job of portraying his state of mind and the conflict in his heart at the time.

Tugged on my heartstrings at times too. As it should be. Very happy this game exists, I had hoped in the back of my heart for a third game when the remakes of the first two came out, but I didn't actually expect it to eventually exist and also be as good as this was.

Also the music??? Crazy to me how they captured the feeling of the original music with these new compositions. It sounds like remastered Famicom tracks even though a lot of it is new. The credits theme is just a perfect send-off to the story. And the remixes of previous songs like Ayumi's theme and the Utsugi Detective Agency themes were great too. I was kind of hoping for a version of the Investigation theme from the first game (and there kind of is), but what we got was so good, I'm just nitpicking at this point.
 
So uh, are the Todorokis just gonna be mad at Tantei-kun for how Minoru truly turned out? That's never resolved in the story and is like the one missing conclusion to the game.
I feel like that was purposely omitted because the epilogue was already depressing enough, and seeing the Todoroki family’s reaction to everything wouldn’t have really added much besides even more heartbreak. It was probably for the best.

Hell, it feels like they only wrote in the part about Junko getting off easy and living with her brother and marrying Daisuke just to give the ending some kind of positivity (which would explain why it feels a bit forced and unearned), and that’s kind of all they really could do given the circumstances. Eisuke’s closest friends’ worst fears came true in that he actually did kill himself, and of course there’s not really any silver lining in anything related to Minoru beyond the fact that Makoto is now free from that life, so the events that unfold just don’t really support much resolution beyond sadness all around.
 
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Just beat Chapter 10 and man, if the story is going the way I think it's going, then wow this ending is going to be a gut punch.

Minoru Tsuzuki grew up in Irumo Village under abusive parents. Whether due to trauma or simply being born that way, Minoru struggled with a developmental disability of some kind. He loved his sister Emiko a lot, and after watching her suffer constant abuse at the hands of their parents, he snapped and killed her in a perverse act of mercy, giving her corpse a paper bag with a crude smiley face so that she can "smile forever".

Fast forward 12 years, Minoru is homeless after getting out of juvie. He happens on the Todorokis and ends up de facto adopted. He also makes friends with Ayaka Hashizume but never really shares much with his new parents. Eventually, she is murdered by the original Smiling Man, who was inspired by the story that traveled from Irumo and eventually mutated into the Emio legend. Minoru decides to take matters into his own hands and, after quitting the car shop, murders the original Emio in his own apartment with the sheet cutters Todoroki gave him. He flees the scene.

After a few months, his mental state degrades. He slowly starts seeing Emiko in crying high school girls, and becomes the second Smiling Man. Eventually he runs into the Kuze siblings after their spat, intending to make Junko his next victim, but is saved by Makoto. For one reason or another, Makoto ends up traveling with Minoru and the killings pause.

Fast forward 18 years, Makoto takes inspiration from Minoru and becomes the third Smiling Man. Junko finds him hiding in their family home and he tells her what he plans to do. Out of a warped belief to make things right with her brother, Junko ends up becoming an accomplice. Makoto arranges a murder with Eisuke over the phone when the latter hits a nadir. Makoto then strangles Eisuke to death with his tie at the pump station, since unlike Minoru he does not have the arm strength for bare-handed strangulation. Junko comes to the crime scene and picks up the tie along with whatever incriminating evidence. Seeing the reports of Emio ends up spurring Minoru's memories of the Kuze siblings, and still under the delusion that Junko is Emiko, he decides to give her her hairclip back.
 
I'm up to chapter 8 or 9 now (palyed before bed and now early in the morning) and god I find Fukuyama so creepy. I know he's just supposed to be a silly guy but he is just too obsessed with ayumi. Otherwise, this game is borderline comfy up to this point. Just a bunch of small silly events with little tension. Wondering if it picks up soon
 
Just beat Chapter 10 and man, if the story is going the way I think it's going, then wow this ending is going to be a gut punch.

Minoru Tsuzuki grew up in Irumo Village under abusive parents. Whether due to trauma or simply being born that way, Minoru struggled with a developmental disability of some kind. He loved his sister Emiko a lot, and after watching her suffer constant abuse at the hands of their parents, he snapped and killed her in a perverse act of mercy, giving her corpse a paper bag with a crude smiley face so that she can "smile forever".

Fast forward 12 years, Minoru is homeless after getting out of juvie. He happens on the Todorokis and ends up de facto adopted. He also makes friends with Ayaka Hashizume but never really shares much with his new parents. Eventually, she is murdered by the original Smiling Man, who was inspired by the story that traveled from Irumo and eventually mutated into the Emio legend. Minoru decides to take matters into his own hands and, after quitting the car shop, murders the original Emio in his own apartment with the sheet cutters Todoroki gave him. He flees the scene.

After a few months, his mental state degrades. He slowly starts seeing Emiko in crying high school girls, and becomes the second Smiling Man. Eventually he runs into the Kuze siblings after their spat, intending to make Junko his next victim, but is saved by Makoto. For one reason or another, Makoto ends up traveling with Minoru and the killings pause.

Fast forward 18 years, Makoto takes inspiration from Minoru and becomes the third Smiling Man. Junko finds him hiding in their family home and he tells her what he plans to do. Out of a warped belief to make things right with her brother, Junko ends up becoming an accomplice. Makoto arranges a murder with Eisuke over the phone when the latter hits a nadir. Makoto then strangles Eisuke to death with his tie at the pump station, since unlike Minoru he does not have the arm strength for bare-handed strangulation. Junko comes to the crime scene and picks up the tie along with whatever incriminating evidence. Seeing the reports of Emio ends up spurring Minoru's memories of the Kuze siblings, and still under the delusion that Junko is Emiko, he decides to give her her hairclip back.
Lmao I was way off about that last part. I kinda see why Sakamoto said the ending would be divisive, and I did feel a bit iffy about it at first, but the epilogue made me feel better about it. The only part that rubbed me the wrong way was that Junko sent everyone close to Eisuke into horrible mental spirals, one of which was almost killed by the real Emio over it. Her atonement is... something she would've done anyway? Big fan of how they handled Minoru's story though. Just heartbreaking.
 
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I'm not sure if this is the place to ask, but i"m up to chapter 9 and is Mama Shoko meant to be a trans woman or are all female bar owners called Mama? I only know about like queer bars run by trans women being run by Mamas so this isn't something I know too much about. Like the vibes surrounding Kamihara completely change if he's going to a gay bar I guess is what I'm trying to say, and like I mean it's awesome if Kamisama is gay or bi but like I dunno I never really expected this from a nintendo game
 
I'm not sure if this is the place to ask, but i"m up to chapter 9 and is Mama Shoko meant to be a trans woman or are all female bar owners called Mama? I only know about like queer bars run by trans women being run by Mamas so this isn't something I know too much about. Like the vibes surrounding Kamihara completely change if he's going to a gay bar I guess is what I'm trying to say, and like I mean it's awesome if Kamisama is gay or bi but like I dunno I never really expected this from a nintendo game
"Mama" is just a general title for female bartenders and is not a specifically trans identifier in that regard.
 
I really thought Minoru's facial damage was the result of him setting the apartment on fire, so I was surprised to see what it actually was. Again, perhaps a bit much but it does a great job of portraying his state of mind and the conflict in his heart at the time.
Nah come on the way the sheet-metal shears come back after you think he just used it to fix cars or cut into places or something before you know minoru's backstory was fucking metal. idt the scene would've hit as hard if it had been a knife or something, the way he's operating purely on the instinct of the tools he knows how to use/the shock of some newfound way of mutilating yourself coming into play left that scene nailed into my brain
 
I'm finally back from PAX (mental note: never travel on labor day) so I can continue playing this. going to dedicate the entire week to this. Also pics from the limited edition, I wasn't expecting it to be that big, but it's very nice. Glad they also mark the artbook and soundtrack with heavy spoilers so you don't accidentally go through them before playing the game

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Really strange how the game is rated 15+ in Japan, and below the likes of Goldeneye in that sense. I really don't understand how CERO works.
 
Hey, I played the game in spanish so I want to ask if in the english version was there an
Ace Attorney reference when you talk with the construction man
 
A cool easter egg: in the penultimate character, while investigating

the old apartment, the mysterious old man and his daughter mention a "Hiroshi", who's now at the university. While it could be a reference to Hiroshi Yamauchi (the game does mention Toru Osawa and Kenji Yamamoto, after all!), it might also be a reference to Sakamoto's Card Hero for GBC, where the main character was named Hiroshi. Oh, and in the DS sequel, the new main character was named Satoru. Maybe we'll see a Card Hero 3 starring a Shuntaro.
 
It's sort of interesting looking back at Sakamoto's initial story discussions during the announce. Japanese interpretations tend to indirectly change some of the specifics of what's being said once spoken in English, so I remember this quote and how a lot of people took it to mean the game would have a controversial ending twist prior to release:

"The script cuts right to the heart of what I had in mind from the start, so the story's ending may be divisive for some people. But if that's the case, I hope it will make players curious about experiencing it for themselves, and bring people from around the world together to discuss their thoughts and feelings on it for a long time to come."

I too thought this implied some kind of possibly controversial or shocking ending, but having finished the game, I think I realized what he's talking about.
The potential divisiveness comes from the fact the ending section is meant to discuss the morality of Minoru's plight and the murders he's responsible for, and what that says about the human nature in the face of abuse and its consequences. The game is meant to tour you through an inhumane Atrocity Exhibition, and then pull the rug from under you to reveal a method to the madness: Minoru's desparate, pitiable search for Emiko. Not only is it something Utsugi himself asks you to contemplate, but something the ending makes a very clear point to take no sides in, and to exposit in an incredibly value-neutral, objective viewpoint. Sakamoto actually refers to this both in the AtD interview and the initial announcement video: "As you learn more about the rumor's background, the way you see the case it's connected to will change." He also discusses how morality and reasoning in horror stories are essential to his tastes in the genre:

"I personally like scary stories, but I don't like gory depictions of blood splattering about... In terms of how we direct stories in the Famicom Detective Club series, we always ensure that the killers' thoughts are also fully portrayed. The stories are never about people who kill for no reason. We're always careful to depict the background and state of mind that have driven them to kill."

This is the driver for this game's vision: How the Minoru/Emio story drives the main themes and how what you see in the chapters leading up to that epilogue touch on that subject. I sang (quite extensively) the praises of how Emio's character is such a rich, elaborate point of discussion on the matter of structural abuse and how that impacts people in their formative stages of life, and I think the way the Epilogue just unfolds each and every element of his utterly inhumane backstory as well as the surreal considerations of what the hell is going on as the main story progresses is what might've been so... maybe not "divisive", but certainly shocking. It's practically impossible to land on a solid conclusion as to why everything happens the way it does as the game goes on, like why he kept calling for "Emiko", why his eye color changes behind the mask, why people can't seem to identify what he looked like- it's a case that's nothing short of a never-ending rubber band ball of contradictions that you absolutely cannot link to a basic "Emio is a murderous guy who likes kids" assumption. The red herrings are so immaculately placed that they work double duty as creepy material for the main story and simple visual motifs to express a depressing upbringing in the epilogue.

In that sense, the ending completely flips your understanding of the situation on its head, and jams as much food-for-thought into your brain for the like. 20 minutes of the epilogue that comprise the full 10 hours of the game. Absolutely MAD to give such a dense storyline a brand new outlook in the homestretch like that.

Don't ever tell me Sakamoto isn't the best to ever do it.
 
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Hey, I played the game in spanish so I want to ask if in the english version was there an
Ace Attorney reference when you talk with the construction man
Yes there is. The fact it's in multiple languages makes me wonder if it's in the Japanese version as well. Either Sakamoto or Miyachi are AA die-hards and decided to sneak a little tip-of-the-hat in there.
 
It's sort of interesting looking back at Sakamoto's initial story discussions during the announce. Japanese interpretations tend to indirectly change some of the specifics of what's being said once spoken in English, so I remember this quote and how a lot of people took it to mean the game would have a controversial ending twist prior to release:

"The script cuts right to the heart of what I had in mind from the start, so the story's ending may be divisive for some people. But if that's the case, I hope it will make players curious about experiencing it for themselves, and bring people from around the world together to discuss their thoughts and feelings on it for a long time to come."

I too thought this implied some kind of possibly controversial or shocking ending, but having finished the game, I think I realized what he's talking about.
The potential divisiveness comes from the fact the ending section is meant to discuss the morality of Minoru's plight and the murders he's responsible for, and what that says about the human nature in the face of abuse and its consequences. The game is meant to tour you through an inhumane Atrocity Exhibition, and then pull the rug from under you to reveal a method to the madness: Minoru's desparate, pitiable search for Emiko. Not only is it something Utsugi himself asks you to contemplate, but something the ending makes a very clear point to take no sides in, and to exposit in an incredibly value-neutral, objective viewpoint. Sakamoto actually refers to this both in the AtD interview and the initial announcement video: "As you learn more about the rumor's background, the way you see the case it's connected to will change." He also discusses how morality and reasoning in horror stories are essential to his tastes in the genre:

"I personally like scary stories, but I don't like gory depictions of blood splattering about... In terms of how we direct stories in the Famicom Detective Club series, we always ensure that the killers' thoughts are also fully portrayed. The stories are never about people who kill for no reason. We're always careful to depict the background and state of mind that have driven them to kill."

This is the driver for this game's vision: How the Minoru/Emio story drives the main themes and how what you see in the chapters leading up to that epilogue touch on that subject. I sang (quite extensively) the praises of how Emio's character is such a rich, elaborate point of discussion on the matter of structural abuse and how that impacts people in their formative stages of life, and I think the way the Epilogue just unfolds each and every element of his utterly inhumane backstory as well as the surreal considerations of what the hell is going on as the main story progresses is what might've been so... maybe not "divisive", but certainly shocking. It's practically impossible to land on a solid conclusion as to why everything happens the way it does as the game goes on, like why he kept calling for "Emiko", why his eye color changes behind the mask, why people can't seem to identify what he looked like- it's a case that's nothing short of a never-ending rubber band ball of contradictions as far as a simple "Emio is a murderous guy who likes kids" supposition is concerned. The red herrings are so immaculately placed that they work double duty as creepy material and simple visual motifs to express a depressing upbringing.

In that sense, the ending completely flips your understanding of the situation on its head, and jams as much food-for-thought into your brain for the like, 20 minutes of the epilogue that comprise the full game. Absolutely MAD to give such a dense storyline a brand new outlook in the homestretch like that.

Don't ever tell me Sakamoto isn't the best to ever do it.
I figured the "divisive ending" stuff was more referring to
The fact that Junko staged Eisuke's suicide to look like it was connected to Emio/Minoru. I can see people finding it deflating that there was no real conspiracy to uncover or murder mystery to solve, and that it was just a detective warping the facts of the situation. Initially I was kinda miffed about that too, but after watching the epilogue and sitting on it, I think keeping the emotional core of Junko and Makoto's relationship simpler was ultimately the correct choice.
 
I figured the "divisive ending" stuff was more referring to
The fact that Junko staged Eisuke's suicide to look like it was connected to Emio/Minoru. I can see people finding it deflating that there was no real conspiracy to uncover or murder mystery to solve, and that it was just a detective warping the facts of the situation. Initially I was kinda miffed about that too, but after watching the epilogue and sitting on it, I think keeping the emotional core of Junko and Makoto's relationship simpler was ultimately the correct choice.
Maybe so, but I don't think that should really take away from the case too much since actual murders and a real prescient threat is still part of the narrative after the discovery of Eisuke's corpse anyway. The ending was def kinda deflating for me prior to seeing the epilogue, and BIG big agree on the epilogue changing my view on Junko staging the murder, talked about that to no end a little while ago
 
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I figured the "divisive ending" stuff was more referring to
The fact that Junko staged Eisuke's suicide to look like it was connected to Emio/Minoru. I can see people finding it deflating that there was no real conspiracy to uncover or murder mystery to solve, and that it was just a detective warping the facts of the situation. Initially I was kinda miffed about that too, but after watching the epilogue and sitting on it, I think keeping the emotional core of Junko and Makoto's relationship simpler was ultimately the correct choice.
I feel like the deep-dive into Minoru's life was meant to be the big talking piece, since the player themselves is directly asked to ruminate on it all. But I totally agree that the morality of what Junko did to get her happy ending is what I keep coming back to in terms of what really feels divisive about the conclusion. While it's nice that Junko does feel guilty about what she did, there's no sense that she was truly punished, despite what she says about needing to find atonement. After all, her helping her brother rehabilitate was probably part of the plan anyway, and she also ends up happily married. And sure, she lost her detective job -- well, she resigned of her own volition, and we have no idea if she would have been forcibly removed if she didn't -- but her childhood dream was to become a florist anyway.

I suppose it was good to end on at least a bittersweet note before throwing us into the deep-end of misery with the epilogue, though. I'm not sure I could handle a version of the story where Megumi died and Junko's doing jail time or something. The Minoru epilogue is depressing enough on its own.
 
I feel like the deep-dive into Minoru's life was meant to be the big talking piece, since the player themselves is directly asked to ruminate on it all. But I totally agree that the morality of what Junko did to get her happy ending is what I keep coming back to in terms of what really feels divisive about the conclusion. While it's nice that Junko does feel guilty about what she did, there's no sense that she was truly punished, despite what she says about needing to find atonement. After all, her helping her brother rehabilitate was probably part of the plan anyway, and she also ends up happily married. And sure, she lost her detective job -- well, she resigned of her own volition, and we have no idea if she would have been forcibly removed if she didn't -- but her childhood dream was to become a florist anyway.

I suppose it was good to end on at least a bittersweet note before throwing us into the deep-end of misery with the epilogue, though. I'm not sure I could handle a version of the story where Megumi died and Junko's doing jail time or something. The Minoru epilogue is depressing enough on its own.
tbh the only hole in the story to me is the fact that by framing the suicide as an Emio murder, Junko put the entirety of the school in despair and single-handedly brought him back into the public eye which nearly lead to Megumi being killed by the REAL Smiling Man, and she just doesn't ever really make anything of the fact that she put dozens at risk and hundreds in a state of panic. That being said, her intention was always to try using the Utsugi Detective Agency as a stepladder in a desperate ploy to be able to find Minoru and kill him for good, but still. Doesn't help that all suspects were presumed dead and inactive anyway.

Beyond the Minoru story, it's actually a pretty tidy, happy ending as the curse of bearing abusive burdens is lifted on much of the main cast and the Agency's detectives return to a sense of prosperity having solved the case and forged new alliances. I would've been perfectly fine with some kind of scene of Junko being dishonorably discharged and possibly serving a minor sentence (Daisuke comes in clutch for her) and after that takes place, we get the letter and a hint at her and Daisuke hooking up, and then an indication of the flower farm by her gifting Tantei-kun a big jar of flowers or something. idk idk. Loved that epilogue nontheless.
 
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Yes there is. The fact it's in multiple languages makes me wonder if it's in the Japanese version as well. Either Sakamoto or Miyachi are AA die-hards and decided to sneak a little tip-of-the-hat in there.
From what I recall, I believe it’s actually not present in the Japanese version, based on the voice acting for those lines. I’m far from fluent in Japanese, but I’m familiar enough with the language to have recognized that the voiced lines seemed to be talking about something entirely different from the English text during that part.
 
From what I recall, I believe it’s actually not present in the Japanese version, based on the voice acting for those lines. I’m far from fluent in Japanese, but I’m familiar enough with the language to have recognized that the voiced lines seemed to be talking about something entirely different from the English text during that part.
Kinda disappointing then, I'll be honest one of my biggest gripes is the constant editorializing of this game to be cutesier in the interest of paving over the intent of the original text for the localizations. I'm fine with it being done liberally so long as the intent of the text is preserved, but they do at one point commit the cardinal sin of inserting humor in a very unfitting moment which is when Daisuke is excoriating you for thinking Junko was faking it upon seeing Emio in her apartment. He says something like "If that was acting, then they need to give her Best Actress now!" which is really out of place for his moment where he takes the situation way more seriously to randomly switch over to a crappy pop culture reference. What are you gonna do, though.
 
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Excited to start this, hopefully on Friday I'll find the time. Can someone who's finished the game let me know approx. how long it takes to beat?
 
It's really strange to consider that more adult oriented than all the stuff that happens late in this game. Cultural differences, I guess.
It's doubly weird because I hear Japan is a lot harder on violence censorship than the US (it's why the RE games have special CERO Z versions that are still toned down from the Western version), so you think they'd be a little harsher on a guy gruesomely carving his face with a sheet cutter.
 
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Kinda disappointing then, I'll be honest one of my biggest gripes is the constant editorializing of this game to be cutesier in the interest of paving over the intent of the original text for the localizations. I'm fine with it being done liberally so long as the intent of the text is preserved, but they do at one point commit the cardinal sin of inserting humor in a very unfitting moment which is when Daisuke is excoriating you for thinking Junko was faking it upon seeing Emio in her apartment. He says something like "If that was acting, then they need to give her Best Actress now!" which is really out of place for his moment where he takes the situation way more seriously to randomly switch over to a crappy pop culture reference. What are you gonna do, though.
I played the game in Japanese, I dunno about any Ace Attorney reference, didn’t see anything like that myself, but that actress line is accurate to the Japanese script. He basically says something like “If that was acting, that’d make her one hell of an actress”. Maybe the way it’s written in the localisation is awkward though, but I haven’t seen it for myself.
 
Excited to start this, hopefully on Friday I'll find the time. Can someone who's finished the game let me know approx. how long it takes to beat?
A lot of people have been saying it took them around 10 hours, but personally it took me 20 hours. I assume the average time is probably sometime between there, maybe around 15 hours.
 
Kinda disappointing then, I'll be honest one of my biggest gripes is the constant editorializing of this game to be cutesier in the interest of paving over the intent of the original text for the localizations. I'm fine with it being done liberally so long as the intent of the text is preserved, but they do at one point commit the cardinal sin of inserting humor in a very unfitting moment which is when Daisuke is excoriating you for thinking Junko was faking it upon seeing Emio in her apartment. He says something like "If that was acting, then they need to give her Best Actress now!" which is really out of place for his moment where he takes the situation way more seriously to randomly switch over to a crappy pop culture reference. What are you gonna do, though.
To be fair, the reason I caught the difference between Japanese and English during that part in the first place is because significantly less was said in Japanese compared to the English text given, so in this case I don’t think anything was really lost, and instead we just gained a fun reference in the localizations. It could also be that something that was said in Japanese there may not have really translated well outside of Japan, so they just did something else there instead. Overall, though, I’m sure the localization likely stayed very faithful in conveying the original intent of the writing.
 
Excited to start this, hopefully on Friday I'll find the time. Can someone who's finished the game let me know approx. how long it takes to beat?
Took me in the ballpark of 15-20 hours. But I'm also someone who throws on autoplay and let's all the voice acting play out even if I can't understand 95% of the Japanese dialogue, so if you're just reading the text, you'll probably shave off some of that time.
 
I played the game in Japanese, I dunno about any Ace Attorney reference, didn’t see anything like that myself, but that actress line is accurate to the Japanese script. He basically says something like “If that was acting, that’d make her one hell of an actress”. Maybe the way it’s written in the localisation is awkward though, but I haven’t seen it for myself.
It's good that they didn't shove that in, but there's a key difference between a distinct reference to pop culture (film nomenclature) and just expressing doubt using much broader reference. It's just kind of a frequent joke to mention who you'd nominate for Best Actor/Actress at the Academy Awards. Your example would've probably fit better, but I don't know Japanese and I also wasn't there to coordinate with NCL when they made the game so... shrug
 
Yeah I’ve seen a bunch of people say it took them 10 hours and I was like, huh??? Took over 15 hours for me.
key difference is how much of the dialogue audio you listen to, I personally skip most of the soundbites in regular conversation before they're done largely because that's the pace I read text at.
 
Kinda disappointing then, I'll be honest one of my biggest gripes is the constant editorializing of this game to be cutesier in the interest of paving over the intent of the original text for the localizations. I'm fine with it being done liberally so long as the intent of the text is preserved, but they do at one point commit the cardinal sin of inserting humor in a very unfitting moment which is when Daisuke is excoriating you for thinking Junko was faking it upon seeing Emio in her apartment. He says something like "If that was acting, then they need to give her Best Actress now!" which is really out of place for his moment where he takes the situation way more seriously to randomly switch over to a crappy pop culture reference. What are you gonna do, though.
That part didn’t read to me as joke, honestly. He isn’t making light of the situation, he’s using a metaphor to illustrate his point. It’s not a pop culture reference, it’s him telling Taro to kindly shut the fuck up.

You can take something seriously without being completely blunt with your speech. This is an example of that.
 
That part didn’t read to me as joke, honestly. He isn’t making light of the situation, he’s using a metaphor to illustrate his point. It’s not a pop culture reference, it’s him telling Taro to kindly shut the fuck up.

You can take something seriously without being completely blunt with your speech. This is an example of that.
Eh, it's not so much that the reference presents it like he's making light of the situation, but just that it's kind of unnatural for him to make a reference like that, he's not really a pop culture guy and I don't think it's natural dialogue for the characters in that world. What you said is true but tbh my feeling is that it probably applies better to the original JP translation more than the ENG one where he decides to get that point across with a joke that's either showing him as immature or sarcastic. It's weird, I just don't really think the shoe fit for that one.
 
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