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Discussion Dragon Quest’s bigoted composer Koichi Sugiyama has died, age 90

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    Staff would like to remind the thread that while discussion around individual beliefs is encouraged and can bring nuance to matters at hand, it is never acceptable to resort to personal attacks. Please aim to disagree civilly, even if you feel strongly about it.

    Furthermore, equating the hateful, harmful rhetoric of someone like Sugiyama to someone being relieved he is no longer able to share those views is a false equivalence. It also leans into both-sidesism and respectability politics, which should be avoided.
     
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    • User warned: Ignoring official staff communication, continued personal attacks against other users - blondkayvon, Donnie, and hologram
    Dardan Sandiego said:
    Equating people being happy or rather relieved that someone cannot spread hate that actively harms their very existence with a raging bigot shows a concerning lack of empathy for the people that are actually affected by this. The violence inflicted unto marginalized identities by his rhetoric stands in no comparison to some random person on here celebrating Sugiyama's death, not in scale and not in reach. It's absolutely disgusting that you came into this thread to pass judgement on people that have to fight for their lives on a daily basis because of people like Sugiyama. I hope you reevaluate your position because while you might think that this does't make you a sympathizer, bothsides-ing this issue makes you complicit in normalizing hate speech towards marginalized people. Masking that behind "rainbows and cookies" doesn't change that.

    in short:



    Things are better now that he's gone.
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    I never argued against being relieved. Feel free to. But celebrating is another thing, death is never a thing to be praised.

    I am also fully aware of who he is, even before this thread. But basically as a decent person you don't wish someones death or celebrate it, even if the person is bad.

    So why you feel the need to attack me personally, after I reminded people to show basic humanity is beyond me. You and I agree, that he was a bad person. Doesn't mean we need to show hateful behaviour by celebrating someones death. So please cool down, I didn't mean to attack anyone here, just remind them to reign themselfes in a bit.
     
    I don't understand why celebrating the death of powerful, impactful people who used their power to harm others is bad.

    This feels like a very puritan Christian POV. My soul or whatever is not tainted by laughing at the death of a homophobic war criminal lover who, as a queer person, if I died, would almost certainly laugh at my death. I don't care. Scolding me about being a vague nebulous "bad person" for it isn't going to change that.
     
    Mnementh said:
    I never argued against being relieved. Feel free to. But celebrating is another thing, death is never a thing to be praised.

    I am also fully aware of who he is, even before this thread. But basically as a decent person you don't wish someones death or celebrate it, even if the person is bad.

    So why you feel the need to attack me personally, after I reminded people to show basic humanity is beyond me. You and I agree, that he was a bad person. Doesn't mean we need to show hateful behaviour by celebrating someones death. So please cool down, I didn't mean to attack anyone here, just remind them to reign themselfes in a bit.
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    Please stop. You came into this thread calling people who celebrated Sugiyama's death as bad as him despite being familiar with his actions. You can't expect civility from people when you don't show any to others. Any comparison like that is completely uncalled for. I'm going to drop this now because you seem to be adamant about bothsides-ing this issue.
     
    Bufasa said:
    He laughed at the deaths of people like myself and spread hatred and bigotry. I for one am glad he is gone.
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    Agreed. Good riddance, I have no problem celebrating deaths of terrible people who bring hate into the world with ever fiber of their being.
     
    Mnementh said:
    I never argued against being relieved. Feel free to. But celebrating is another thing, death is never a thing to be praised.

    I am also fully aware of who he is, even before this thread. But basically as a decent person you don't wish someones death or celebrate it, even if the person is bad.

    So why you feel the need to attack me personally, after I reminded people to show basic humanity is beyond me. You and I agree, that he was a bad person. Doesn't mean we need to show hateful behaviour by celebrating someones death. So please cool down, I didn't mean to attack anyone here, just remind them to reign themselfes in a bit.
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    I can relate to what you're trying to say, but people like this were actively hurting others. You can hope for them to have a sudden epiphany and change their ways, but usually the only way people like this stop spreading hate is when they lose their ability to due so. It's less about being happy he died and more about being happy that he is unable to harm others. It's really not as simple as "you wanted a bad thing to happen to someone so that makes you just as bad". It's more about the overall impact his death has on others.
     
    KC Hazel said:
    I can relate to what you're trying to say, but people like this were actively hurting others. You can hope for them to have a sudden epiphany and change their ways, but usually the only way people like this stop spreading hate is when they lose their ability to due so. It's less about being happy he died and more about being happy that he is unable to harm others. It's really not as simple as "you wanted a bad thing to happen to someone so that makes you just as bad". It's more about the overall impact his death has on others.
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    Yeah, that is fine. I won't deny his shitty deeds and won't stop anyone in pointing them out. Just the celebratory tone rubbed me the wrong way. Even bad people are humans and deserve to be treated a such. It's not more I do say.

    In saying it makes one as bad as him was way too far from me by the way, I apologize for that. I didn't mean to come off that harshly.
     
    Just wanted to add that I sure as hell won't miss Sugiyama. He really was a bad bad man and he hurt so many people.

    Agree with @Lichtsang that perhaps we can finally get some different music for the franchise.
     
    Mnementh said:
    Yeah, that is fine. I won't deny his shitty deeds and won't stop anyone in pointing them out. Just the celebratory tone rubbed me the wrong way. Even bad people are humans and deserve to be treated a such. It's not more I do say.

    In saying it makes one as bad as him was way too far from me by the way, I apologize for that. I didn't mean to come off that harshly.
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    While I can't say I agree with you I can at least respect this stance. I find it very hard to empathize with someone like this but I certainly wont fault you for wanting to treat all humans with basic decency.
     
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    Never knew about the homophobic stuff, but I always knew he was a war crime denier, which was already bad enough. He’s made some decent music, but after DQXI, I was ready for this fucker to go, regardless of his views.

    Finally we’ll get some new blood into this series, although I’m guessing the DQ fanfare will be a permanent fixture of every game (and of course, every fucking trailer and commercial).
     
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    While Koichi Sugiyama is most famous on videogame boards for his compositions for Dragon Quest (obviously since it's the grand father of all console RPG), Shiren the Wanderer and E.V.O., I'd say his crowning jewel is the OST for the anime Space Runaway Ideon: Be Invoked.

     
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    Celine said:
    While Koichi Sugiyama is most famous on videogame boards for his compositions for Dragon Quest (obviously since it's the grand father of all console RPG), Shiren the Wanderer and E.V.O., I'd say his crowning jewel is the OST for the anime Space Runaway Ideon: Be Invoked.

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    Maybe not appropriate for me to say in this thread but goddamn does Ideon have a classic Tomino ending.
     
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    Not a fan of the thread title. I wholly agree Sugiyama was a hateful person and bigoted. But putting that in a title feels a lot like the toxicity/negativity we used to see on Resetera all the time.

    For example, a lot of OT threads about Trump would replace his name in titles with "orange POS" (or some derivative.) Like, I get it, I agree, but it's not really helping anything and just fosters toxicity/negativity. I'd rather news threads read more like news and leave the opinions to the posts, while allowing for healthy disagreement and discussion.

    For contentious topics, putting forward an implicit stance in the title/OP can feel suffocating for those with differing opinions. On GAF/Era, I felt like I had to walk on eggshells constantly (at risk of being banned) if I had a differing viewpoint from the majority. It felt like a toxic hivemind frequently, and I'd rather not see the mentality be fostered here. Sugiyama's history isn't really up for debate, but I'm speaking in general.
     
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    "Bigoted" is an accurate descriptor, not that controversial and pretty straight forward. If y'all really wanna see toxic then let me rename the thread...
     
    User Warned: Ignoring Official Staff Communication, Personal Attacks On Other Users -blondkayvon, EvilChameleon, hologram
    Sheesh, i just signed up to this place after refusing to join Neogaf and Resetera because they are so toxic and then one of the first threads i see here is people celebrating the death of this man while his family are still mourning him. what a loser behavior, he lived a successful full life for 90 years and probably died happy in his home surrounded by his beloved family while you are here seething and calling him names to feel good about yourselves, the dude don't even know or care about what you think of him, let's see you reach 90 years like him while spending time getting angry at an old dead man on a dead forum.
     
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    TheDok said:
    Not a fan of the thread title. I wholly agree Sugiyama was a hateful person and bigoted. But putting that in a title feels a lot like the toxicity/negativity we used to see on Resetera all the time.

    For example, a lot of OT threads about Trump would replace his name in titles with "orange POS" (or some derivative.) Like, I get it, I agree, but it's not really helping anything and just fosters toxicity/negativity. I'd rather news threads read more like news and leave the opinions to the posts, while allowing for healthy disagreement and discussion.

    For contentious topics, putting forward an implicit stance in the title/OP can feel suffocating for those with differing opinions. On GAF/Era, I felt like I had to walk on eggshells constantly (at risk of being banned) if I had a differing viewpoint from the majority. It felt like a toxic hivemind frequently, and I'd rather not see the mentality be fostered here. Sugiyama's history isn't really up for debate, but I'm speaking in general.
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    Disagree. For the record my original title referred to him as controversial not bigoted. And given the sentiment of people in this thread who would be directly impacted by his actions and words, I felt bigoted was much more powerful while remaining generally respectful of the topic.

    Controversial implies his views may have had merit, whereas any reasonable person would see his war crime denial and treatment of the LGBTQ+ community as bigoted.

    Being the bigger person means standing up against the people who have actual toxic views. Standing against those who - in their own words - would laugh if a gay member of this community commuted suicide. There is no “both sides have merit” in the sense that the composers views are entirely without merit.

    Do I care for comments that laugh and want to dance on his grave? No, not really but I’m also a straight white married man who was not directly impacted by this guys views and actions - and trying to tie it to “b..but Trump voters were slandered On Era” is disingenuous. If you want AP style reporting, read the Associated Press. This is a discussion forum and neither you, nor I have any right to tell people how to react to post as long as they’re within the community guidelines.
     
    I don't see how calling out bigotry as vile as Sugiyama's is "toxic". People can still post their favourite compositions but his bigotry is part of his legacy. Live your life the way you want to be remembered when you're dead. 🤷‍♂️
     
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    Staff has already asked people to disagree civilly. Different ethical beliefs are and will be tolerated but ignoring staff posts and resorting to attacks on other members' persons will be met with moderation, if they persist.

    Now please, let's drop the metadiscussion.
     
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    • Thread closed at request of the OP, as news has been discussed and meaningful conversation has run its course
     
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