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StarTopic Donkey Kong Community |ST| No Country For Old Kongs

There was a patent that was filed in 2018 for a Bongo like controller on Switch: https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2...hints_at_donkey_konga_bongo_support_on_switch.

The timing is interesting too because this was around the time EPD took over the DK series (late 2017-early 2018). With bongos being featured in the theme park, the LEGO set, and as background elements in the Mario movie, are bongo games making a comeback?
Dear god I hope not, if they did all of this to make a peripheral game this late in the lifespan would just be throwing all that away. Right now what dk needs is a restart using what worked form the last and bringing it into something original and unique, but traditional enough to get a foothold and become nintendos next explosive ip.

Oh I read that worng the end scared me, ports would be neat yeah.
 
The thing is the kremlin ga have been gone for almost 25 years now from a starring role.

If they bring them back it would be cool but if they aren’t brought back it wouldn’t really matter, if they create a new interesting villain group it would Bassicaly be the same but with less people raving on the internet.

Dk already moved away from the old branding and it’s flourishing right now though I don’t think that wario land argument is solid. Wario eventually found his place with warioware anyway.
If Nintendo wants to sell merchandise of these characters (which is one of their stated goals with their whole IP expansion), then selling merch of a character that already has a big built-in fanbase is much easier than coming up with new bad guys every game, especially when the series goes into hibernation for a decade. I can guarantee the K. Rool Amiibo sold more than a theoretical Tiki Tong Amiibo would. The brand is currently in a less-than-ideal place due to lack of new games and having to focus on the same handful of Kongs over and over in merchandise, both of these being self-inflicted on Nintendo's part.
 
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Nintendo has learned that the Rare cast of characters is what people are attached to and have universal appeal. Jungle Beat was the worst-selling DK mainline game ever, mainly because they forced you to use a bongo peripheral in 2005 when the GameCube was dead, but also because it infamously only had DK and the banana as returning characters, making existing fans of the franchise feel jilted.

There were 4 disparate DK visions in the buyout era (2003-2007): bongo games, DKC trilogy by Rare, the Paon games, and Mario vs. Donkey Kong. Ironically, the ports of the Country trilogy to the GBA from 2003-2005 were the best-selling DK games by a mile, even though the Konga games were a moderate success, particularly in Japan. This caused Nintendo to shift towards making the two modern Country games. Rare actually pitched Country 4 on DS, but Nintendo declined because they'd rather have their own internal team create Country for a home console, which is where Retro came into the picture.

The Rare cast and iconography created from 1994-1999 is the most iconic aspect of DK. If you watched the Mario movie, you can see this to be clear. What I've noticed looking at the Smash trailers, Donkey Kong Adventure and the Mario movie is that tire swings, bongos, temple ruins, girders, rocket barrels etc. seem to be a big part of the iconography moving forward. So while there's nods to all 4 eras of DK (arcade, Rare, buyout, and Retro), the Rare stuff is taking priority. Nintendo hasn't moved on from the Rare characters. They've completely embraced them hence Swanky and Chunky Kong's rebirth. The EPD game is being created by devs who grew up playing the Country games. If they've embraced all this Rare stuff and resurrected K. Rool in a game that sold 30M copies, where K. Rool was debatably the most marketed new character (who was also featured in more newcomer trailers than any other character), then that tells me they're trying to get as many people interested in this character as possible before leveraging him as a major marketing aspect for a new DK game and a DK movie.
 
Yeah honestly the licensing situation with DK seems to be pretty odd at the moment. For the most part, a lot of the ancillary stuff (toys, theme parks, etc) are mostly based on Retro's games but even then, you have cases like K. Rool appearing on that 2021 Calendar and also Swanky and Chunky appearing in the Mario movie. Ellie the Elephant also seems to be showing up at Super Nintendo World.

2019_07_07_dkisland_02.png

Unless...it turns out to just be that generic elephant from Returns or something.
 
Yeah honestly the licensing situation with DK seems to be pretty odd at the moment. Like for the most part a lot of the ancillary stuff (toys, theme parks, etc) are mostly based on Retro's games but even then, you have cases like K. Rool appearing on that 2021 Calendar and also Swanky and Chunky appearing in the Mario movie. Ellie the Elephant also seems to be showing up at Super Nintendo World.

2019_07_07_dkisland_02.png

Unless...it turns out to just be that generic elephant from Returns or something.

Ellie doesn't seem to have made it past the concept art phase based on all the datamining from the Universal apps and other production rumors about the land. Rambi is definitely still there, with a whole Power-Up Band minigame themed after him; and apparently there's a Squawks animatronic hanging out in the Minecart Madness ride queue too last I heard.

There's actually a lot of brand cohesion between what we're seeing in the theme park and LEGO sets. The aforementioned selection of animal buddies; DK's Treehouse; Funky's Fly 'n' Buy; etc. I think the only notable element from the LEGO sets with no confirmation or rumor of being included in the park so far is Dixie Kong, so hopefully she makes an appearance somewhere.
 
The brand is all over the place in terms of who they're pushing as the main DK cast members. I think Nintendo is sticking to the Returns/TF aesthetic simply cause they're the latest games in the series, but even then they're mostly focused on the characters that have been recurring between both Rare and Retro era DK. Which is why the 7 most prominent characters are Donkey, Diddy, Dixie, Cranky, Funky, Squawks, and Rambi.

They're not really "pushing" certain baddies as core to the brand like a Bowser or Ganon or the recurring Mario and Zelda enemy types, and it's more that they'll pick a few if there's a need like in the Lego sets or even in the theme park. (From what I can tell of rumors there aren't that many baddies on the Universal ride, Tiki Tong is obviously the most notable in 1 scene and I think theres a Mole Miner and a Screaming Pillar)

That said, we've seen a lot of Rare characters make it out in smaller ways the past generation. The DK DLC of Mario + Rabbids was able to make callbacks to all the old animal buddies with the weapon skins, and Enguarde was considered by Retro for DKCTF. The Mario movie uses Swanky and Chunky for long lost Kongs. Then of course Smash has used the Kremlings like playable K. Rool and the Klaptrap assist trophy in Ultimate and Kritter in Smash Run on 3DS.

Basically, the Donkey Kong brand is in limbo until it gets a new game to redefine the status quo.
 
My view is that the theme parks and movies will reach far more people than games ever will if we're being honest so I think their influence on future games will happen to some degree. I think the Golden Cranky head is going to be DK's version of Peach's castle, meaning the it'll become the most iconic major architectural set piece. Since we don't know when they're going to announce the EPD game at this point, and the theme park is coming out in 2024, I think the theme park is the best place to look for clues as to what to expect from the DK brand moving forward. Particularly the merch they'll sell in Funky's Fly n Buy. If there's no Kremling or K. Rool merch whatsoever, then I think it's time to start getting concerned about his status.

I feel pretty confident about Dixie being represented in the park. I think DK and Diddy are the only characters confirmed for a meet and greet, but Nintendo is really pushing female protagonists with their brand expansion into movies and parks as evidenced by Peach being the second protagonist of the Mario movie and getting her own meet and greet spot in SNW. I think Dixie could either be a meet and greet character too or at least be an advanced animatronic in the queue of the park like Cranky is rumored to be. There's rumored to be a mini game at the body of water in the park. Please make it Enguarde. My favorite animal buddy has been MIA for too long!
 
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I would hope that the next game releases before the park. That way even if there's no Dixie or K Rool mascots trotting around the park they'll have an excuse to stock shelves with new cool stuff for those characters if they make it in the game
 
That theme park looks very consistent with the movie, which is basically like a mix of Returns and the arcade style imo. Returns also borrows a lot of influence from Jungle Beat, an EAD project, in terms of making DK more physical. I wonder if Cranky will become the second most important like in the movie.
 
I wouldn't worry about Dixie Kong at the park for now. Of the 5 main Kongs in the Retro games it would be baffling to include all the male Kongs and exclude the girl. (Not to mention Funky is assumed cause of his plane being the giftshop but we don't have a direct rumor on the character himself being present) Nevermind that there are digital elements to theme parks that people wouldn't know beforehand like on screens and AR. For example there were a lot of surprise character inclusions we didnt know from rumors until the Mario land opened to the public.

In terms of character meet & greets the only one we can safely say will be there is Donkey Kong due to the datamine of the Super Nintendo World app listing him alongside the 4 Mario characters who also have them.(Mario, Luigi, Peach, Toad) I do hope Diddy Kong makes it as a character meet but it's up in the air.
 
I think Diddy will be a meet and greet character w/ DK. The rumored ride breakdown has Diddy featured in like 4 parts of the ride as animatronics including one where he's riding in an oncoming kart with DK, so if they're putting that level of attention into Diddy Kong, I think he'll be part of the meet and greet as a pair w/ DK like Mario and Luigi.

Cranky is very curious. He's been getting a huge push over the last decade. The secret character reveal in TF, the only other playable Kong in DK Adventure, and a huge role in the Mario movie are the highlights. Miyamoto has taken over as the brand ambassador for DK during this transitory period between now and the EPD game, so it'll be interesting to see if Cranky gets elevated to the 2nd main Kong above Diddy or at least the 3rd main Kong. Miyamoto apparently loves Cranky so it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. Maybe Miyamoto wants to highlight the relationship between DK and Cranky and play up the father/son angle and that was his vision for DK going all the way back to DK Jr.
 
Besides having the Kremlings and K. Rool back in the main antagonist role, I want DK games to be full of characters once again for the sake of having them there..

That was the motto Rare lived back then, they make up characters then they assigned them roles.. maybe one of them won't be anything but a NPC, but there will be a character there! Pretty much the opposite of how Nintendo or Retro operate, just adding the necessary amount of characters with significance within a game.

Heck, if only Rambi returns as the sole rideable animal buddy once again, have the other animal buddies hanging out on background of stages, on Cranky's cabin or something!

You also don't need to have Candy being a major character, as long she's there, maybe assisting someone else, like she did with Swanky in DKC2 on GBA
 
My favorite DK characters are DK, Cranky, and K. Rool in order so I'd be pretty happy with a Cranky upgrade. Diddy will probably still be #2, but Cranky might have leapfrogged everyone else.

@CyberWolfJV The Splatoon team shares this same philosophy. They create tons of characters that could easily just be used as menus. Mario Odyssey has tons of characters brimming with personality too. Hopefully that design philosophy carries over to the DK games. I never knew I needed a civilization of Kongs until I saw the Ring of Kong.
 
I guess this discussion has already taken place here, but what a pity not to have used the excellent DK music for the Super Mario movie. I can't understand the point of using generic hits heard 1000 times instead of songs specially designed for the movie. It's stupid.

Dear god I hope not, if they did all of this to make a peripheral game this late in the lifespan would just be throwing all that away. Right now what dk needs is a restart using what worked form the last and bringing it into something original and unique, but traditional enough to get a foothold and become nintendos next explosive ip.

Oh I read that worng the end scared me, ports would be neat yeah.
If the rumors of EPD Tokyo taking over the license are true (and given the attention Nintendo has paid to DK in both the movie and the parks, it's plausible) one of the biggest fears is actually a sequel to Jungle Beat. I know a lot of people here love that game, but I really didn't care for it at all.
 
I guess this discussion has already taken place here, but what a pity not to have used the excellent DK music for the Super Mario movie. I can't understand the point of using generic hits heard 1000 times instead of songs specially designed for the movie. It's stupid.


If the rumors of EPD Tokyo taking over the license are true (and given the attention Nintendo has paid to DK in both the movie and the parks, it's plausible) one of the biggest fears is actually a sequel to Jungle Beat. I know a lot of people here love that game, but I really didn't care for it at all.
I think Nintendo learned their lesson with Jungle Beat. It was by far the worst selling mainline game in the series. I think if they bring the bongos back it'll be for either a Jungle Beat or Konga remaster or they might use the bongos as part of a spinoff series. They know the bongos severely limited the sales of Jungle Beat, at least I hope 😅
 
Besides having the Kremlings and K. Rool back in the main antagonist role, I want DK games to be full of characters once again for the sake of having them there..

That was the motto Rare lived back then, they make up characters then they assigned them roles.. maybe one of them won't be anything but a NPC, but there will be a character there! Pretty much the opposite of how Nintendo or Retro operate, just adding the necessary amount of characters with significance within a game.

Heck, if only Rambi returns as the sole rideable animal buddy once again, have the other animal buddies hanging out on background of stages, on Cranky's cabin or something!

You also don't need to have Candy being a major character, as long she's there, maybe assisting someone else, like she did with Swanky in DKC2 on GBA
Kinda want to make a thread about the Kong audience in the Mario film and ask which one should be a new character in the new game, either as playable or an NPC.
 
For better or for worse, Jungle Beat feels like one of those strange oddball relics of the GCN era that Nintendo of today wouldn't make.
 
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Besides having the Kremlings and K. Rool back in the main antagonist role, I want DK games to be full of characters once again for the sake of having them there..

That was the motto Rare lived back then, they make up characters then they assigned them roles.. maybe one of them won't be anything but a NPC, but there will be a character there! Pretty much the opposite of how Nintendo or Retro operate, just adding the necessary amount of characters with significance within a game.

Heck, if only Rambi returns as the sole rideable animal buddy once again, have the other animal buddies hanging out on background of stages, on Cranky's cabin or something!

You also don't need to have Candy being a major character, as long she's there, maybe assisting someone else, like she did with Swanky in DKC2 on GBA
Ideally the Kongs will be more like Mario 3D World then Tropical Freeze, like def they act as multiplayer options but I hope (apparently it was in the VV game so eh) we're done with Diddy riding back and instead you can pick any of the 5 again like Mario 3d world.

I also think the animal buddies may work best as stage gimmicks rather then power ups of sorts, though that would limit their prevalence somewhat
 
I don't mind Diddy, Dixie, and Cranky riding on DK's back, I just don't think it should be mandatory. They deserve better than just being power ups for DK. Let us mix and match what Kongs to play as. I think it would give gameplay variety on how players tackle a level.
 
I think Nintendo learned their lesson with Jungle Beat. It was by far the worst selling mainline game in the series. I think if they bring the bongos back it'll be for either a Jungle Beat or Konga remaster or they might use the bongos as part of a spinoff series. They know the bongos severely limited the sales of Jungle Beat, at least I hope 😅
Yup. The bongos just made it feel less like a "real" game as stupid as that sounds. There is tons of Jungle Beat influence in the Retro games though and I expect that will continue.
 
While I definitely prefer the overall gameplay style of the Country games, I love the style, bombacity and fierceness of Jungle Beat. I would love for a future 2D Donkey Kong game (and even a 3D DK!) to incorporate that "Character Action Game" feel of Jungle Beat and add more of that free flowing gameplay.
 
Jungle Beat was fun to play through once but I never felt the urge to revisit it. It’s certainly a fascinating time capsule for DK in that era. If a remaster got put on Switch I might try it again.
 
Nintendo has learned that the Rare cast of characters is what people are attached to and have universal appeal. Jungle Beat was the worst-selling DK mainline game ever, mainly because they forced you to use a bongo peripheral in 2005 when the GameCube was dead, but also because it infamously only had DK and the banana as returning characters, making existing fans of the franchise feel jilted.

There were 4 disparate DK visions in the buyout era (2003-2007): bongo games, DKC trilogy by Rare, the Paon games, and Mario vs. Donkey Kong. Ironically, the ports of the Country trilogy to the GBA from 2003-2005 were the best-selling DK games by a mile, even though the Konga games were a moderate success, particularly in Japan. This caused Nintendo to shift towards making the two modern Country games. Rare actually pitched Country 4 on DS, but Nintendo declined because they'd rather have their own internal team create Country for a home console, which is where Retro came into the picture.

The Rare cast and iconography created from 1994-1999 is the most iconic aspect of DK. If you watched the Mario movie, you can see this to be clear. What I've noticed looking at the Smash trailers, Donkey Kong Adventure and the Mario movie is that tire swings, bongos, temple ruins, girders, rocket barrels etc. seem to be a big part of the iconography moving forward. So while there's nods to all 4 eras of DK (arcade, Rare, buyout, and Retro), the Rare stuff is taking priority. Nintendo hasn't moved on from the Rare characters. They've completely embraced them hence Swanky and Chunky Kong's rebirth. The EPD game is being created by devs who grew up playing the Country games. If they've embraced all this Rare stuff and resurrected K. Rool in a game that sold 30M copies, where K. Rool was debatably the most marketed new character (who was also featured in more newcomer trailers than any other character), then that tells me they're trying to get as many people interested in this character as possible before leveraging him as a major marketing aspect for a new DK game and a DK movie.
I don't know what compelled them to think people wouldn't care about the cast of characters that was paramount to the modern DK series becoming huge in the first place. A complete lack of observation? Disdain for Rare? Hubris?

It's like being surprised people like King Dedede and Meta-Knight.

where K. Rool was debatably the most marketed new character (who was also featured in more newcomer trailers than any other character)
Inkling?
 
I would say it's very, very debatable whether K Rool was the "most marketed" new character. He's a great addition and one of my favorites, but he's definitely a character meant to make hardcore Smash fans happy, the kind that went and voted on the old ballot. He's certainly not the biggest new character who got in, in any sense!

On the topic of Jungle Beat, it's excellent and one of the best DK games! Would love to play it again.
 
I would say it's very, very debatable whether K Rool was the "most marketed" new character. He's a great addition and one of my favorites, but he's definitely a character meant to make hardcore Smash fans happy, the kind that went and voted on the old ballot. He's certainly not the biggest new character who got in, in any sense!

On the topic of Jungle Beat, it's excellent and one of the best DK games! Would love to play it again.


He has 4 appearances in this trailer alone.



I think Inkling is the only other choice for more marketed character than K. Rool. Sure, he's a deeper cut than Inkling or Isabelle for example, but Nintendo's trying to push the DK brand heavily and letting everyone know that King K. Rool is a big deal via Smash is a brilliant way of keeping him in the public consciousness during this drought of no DK games
 
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I think Inkling is the only other choice for more marketed character than K. Rool. He has 4 appearances in this accolades trailer alone


I dunno, I feel like the DLC characters that got long detailed breakdowns into their history, music, and how their Smash incarnation plays had more of a focus than K Rool.
 
I dunno, I feel like the DLC characters that got long detailed breakdowns into their history, music, and how their Smash incarnation plays had more of a focus than K Rool.
Of course. Because you have to pay separately for them. I specifically meant newcomers that are Nintendo characters that aren't DLC so sorry for the confusion. Basically between K. Rool, Ridley, Isabelle, Inkling, and Incineroar. Inkling is the only other option that may have been more marketed imo
 


He has 4 appearances in this trailer alone.



I think Inkling is the only other choice for more marketed character than K. Rool. Sure, he's a deeper cut than Inkling or Isabelle for example, but Nintendo's trying to push the DK brand heavily and letting everyone know that King K. Rool is a big deal via Smash is a brilliant way of keeping him in the public consciousness during this drought of no DK games

but they're not even doing that. k rool hasn't gotten anything whatsoever since smash and that game has pretty obscure and irrelevant character picks for the hell of it
 
but they're not even doing that. k rool hasn't gotten anything whatsoever since smash and that game has pretty obscure and irrelevant character picks for the hell of it
That's what happens when you don't have a new game for 10 years. K. Rool's not going to magically appear in a non-DK game. The only DK characters to appear in Mario spinoffs are DK and Diddy and even Diddy's appearances are spotty. Mario Kart Tour does have Dixie and Funky though, but still no Cranky. The point is to keep the character relevant during this drought by keeping him in the public consciousness of being in a 30M selling game. Feel free to disagree, but that's my take
 
you'd think they'd open up k rool to licensees if they planned on reviving him using smash (for things like lego). but i guess those kinds of ip reforms depend on games
 
The DK brand is in such a weird and unprecedented situation. We have a theme park coming next year and in Florida in 2025, and rumored to come to Hollywood later. We have this LEGO DK stuff, and DK being a major character in one of the highest grossing films of all time. It's really bizarre to have all this stuff when there hasn't been a game in almost a decade.

My view is that history is repeating itself and it's best to view the current DK situation as a mirror of the DK era between the arcade games and DKC1 (1985-1994) and DKCTF to now (2015-2023)

1a. After a huge and successful arcade trilogy and some Game & Watch games, the series went dormant outside of ports of the arcade games to the NES in the very early years of the platform and they released Donkey Kong Classics in 1988 to keep the brand alive.
1b. After a successful duology of modern Country games, the series went dormant outside of porting TF to the Switch in 2018, DK Adventure the same year and K. Rool in Smash Ultimate to keep the brand alive.
2a. During the SNES era, DK was attempted to be rebooted by Miyamoto under the title "Super Donkey" which we learned about from the Nintendo Gigaleak. That game was cancelled and later reformed into Yoshi's Island after Rare came in and blew Nintendo away with their ACM graphics and they chose DK as the series they wanted to work on and a 3rd party became the home of DK.
2b. The opposite occurred this time where a 3rd party being Vicarious Visions blew away Nintendo w/ "Donkey Kong Freedom" before the game was cancelled and moved in-house to EPD as the new home of DK.
3a. Before DKC1 released, Nintendo released DK 94 on Game Boy as an appetizer for DKC on SNES.
3b. Before EPD DK released, Nintendo released the Super Mario Bros. Movie as an appetizer for Donkey Kong to the general public.

Hopefully, when they reboot DK this time, we don't have to worry about a corporate buyout 9 years down the road that puts the franchise in disarray lol
 
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I hope they bring multi-player back, especially if the next game is 3D. Monkey Smash was more fun than it had any right to be.
 
I don't know what compelled them to think people wouldn't care about the cast of characters that was paramount to the modern DK series becoming huge in the first place. A complete lack of observation? Disdain for Rare? Hubris?

It's like being surprised people like King Dedede and Meta-Knight.
I feel like it's a result of Nintendo being hyperfocused on gameplay functionality above all else. HAL manages the Kirby brand mostly by themselves so Nintendo doesn't intervene. But DK is an EAD/EPD IP despite being handled by Rare for the better part of a decade, so when it "came home," so to speak, Nintendo kept trying to tweak it on the margins to fit their vision of a gameplay-driven platformer (which is why the Tiki enemies all have obvious "you can touch this part, but not that part" designs). But now in an era where Nintendo is trying to become the video game equivalent of Disney, and turn their characters into marketable merchandise mascots, it seems completely counter-intuitive to hold onto this idea going forward. I'm a grown ass man who will buy K. Rool merchandise if you let me, Nintendo!
 
Yeah it's wild. Apparently, Nintendo decided to make a shift towards being a character driven entertainment brand in 2015 or so when they inked the deal w/ Universal. Miyamoto even mentioned this recently when he referred to their characters as a "talent agency". That's why DK's getting this push too. He's Nintendo's either 2nd or 3rd most recognizable character after Mario, with Pikachu being the only competition. But even then, Pikachu is only partially owned by Nintendo with the weird rights situation there.



Btw, all DK fans should have a listen to this. Hyle confirms the DK movie is happening, and this whole episode is basically a victory lap for DK fans :)
 
I feel like it's a result of Nintendo being hyperfocused on gameplay functionality above all else. HAL manages the Kirby brand mostly by themselves so Nintendo doesn't intervene. But DK is an EAD/EPD IP despite being handled by Rare for the better part of a decade, so when it "came home," so to speak, Nintendo kept trying to tweak it on the margins to fit their vision of a gameplay-driven platformer (which is why the Tiki enemies all have obvious "you can touch this part, but not that part" designs). But now in an era where Nintendo is trying to become the video game equivalent of Disney, and turn their characters into marketable merchandise mascots, it seems completely counter-intuitive to hold onto this idea going forward. I'm a grown ass man who will buy K. Rool merchandise if you let me, Nintendo!
I prefer to side with DKVine on this.

Basically, if we trust what Hyle n'em say? The idea was that, according to Ninty, the best way to honor Rare's contributions was to "go a different direction" with making new characters, so that it wasn't just "reiterating what came before".

Obviously, I don't agree with Nintendo's thinking. But given how it seemed to be a proponent of the whole "Battle for DK's soul" saga that went on from like 2000 up until relatively recently, it made so I only appreciated more just how much it was a fight for Rare-era/DKC fans to get back what we wanted.
 
I prefer to side with DKVine on this.

Basically, if we trust what Hyle n'em say? The idea was that, according to Ninty, the best way to honor Rare's contributions was to "go a different direction" with making new characters, so that it wasn't just "reiterating what came before".

Obviously, I don't agree with Nintendo's thinking. But given how it seemed to be a proponent of the whole "Battle for DK's soul" saga that went on from like 2000 up until relatively recently, it made so I only appreciated more just how much it was a fight for Rare-era/DKC fans to get back what we wanted.
I don’t think the decision to move away from the Rare cast was malicious or anything, Miyamoto has gone on the record that he worked very closely with Rare on the original Donkey Kong Country. But I remember a lot of talk about the Tikis being designed with readability in mind, and that mixed with the choice to move in a new direction (as signaled by Tanabe’s infamous “do we really need crocodiles?” line, which might come across more harshly in English than is meant) put the series in an awkward place.

That’s why I find the Snowmads kind of odd honestly. Sure, they’re more interesting and memorable than the Tikis, but it’s hard to not feel like they’re just using a new flavor of Kremlings (up to the point where the final boss pulls considerably from K. Rool) which makes me wonder why not just use the Kremlings? I don’t actually necessarily expect or need the Kremlings to return as they were in the old days with Kritters and Klaptraps and all that, but the choice to actively avoid them and then replace them with something very similar (nautical animal raiders who invade and take over DK Island) is just strange to me.

If the Kremlings/K. Rool return though I would be more than happy to see Snowmad enemies among their ranks.
 
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I don’t think the decision to move away from the Rare cast was malicious or anything, Miyamoto has gone on the record that he worked very closely with Rare on the original Donkey Kong Country. But I remember a lot of talk about the Tikis being designed with readability in mind, and that mixed with the choice to move in a new direction (as signaled by Tanabe’s infamous “do we really need crocodiles?” line, which might come across more harshly in English than is meant) put the series in an awkward place.
Oh no no! I dont think the decision was malicious either! I just will always think it was unnecessary at best, and insipid at worst.

It was just another case where things were made more complicated then they had to be.
 
Oh no no! I dont think the decision was malicious either! I just will always think it was unnecessary at best, and insipid at worst.

It was just another case where things were made more complicated then they had to be.
Yeah I was just clarifying my original point lol.

This general uncertainty with the DK series right now is just making me uneasy. Nearly a decade without even an announcement of a new game is insane.
 


He has 4 appearances in this trailer alone.



I think Inkling is the only other choice for more marketed character than K. Rool. Sure, he's a deeper cut than Inkling or Isabelle for example, but Nintendo's trying to push the DK brand heavily and letting everyone know that King K. Rool is a big deal via Smash is a brilliant way of keeping him in the public consciousness during this drought of no DK games

Well other than the character's own trailer, which obviously is to market that specific character, showing up in other trailers is usually more because the character is thematically relevant to what's happening than to necessarily push the character.

Like, K. Rool showed up in the Banjo trailer because it was themed around a Rare reunion. He showed up in the Kencineroar trailer because they briefly show other boxers. So past a character's own trailer, I'm not sure how significant subsequent trailer appearances are.

I think order and location are a bit more important than quantity of trailer appearances, because that dictates how long they'll be part of promotion, and how many eyes will be watching their reveal (usually more at E3). Some veterans appear in trailers more than some newcomers, it doesn't mean they're being promoted more heavily.

That's what happens when you don't have a new game for 10 years. K. Rool's not going to magically appear in a non-DK game. The only DK characters to appear in Mario spinoffs are DK and Diddy and even Diddy's appearances are spotty. Mario Kart Tour does have Dixie and Funky though, but still no Cranky. The point is to keep the character relevant during this drought by keeping him in the public consciousness of being in a 30M selling game. Feel free to disagree, but that's my take
but they're not even doing that. k rool hasn't gotten anything whatsoever since smash and that game has pretty obscure and irrelevant character picks for the hell of it
I don't think Smash brought K. Rool back to keep him relevant for some greater purpose, nor do I think he was picked "for the hell of it". He was just a character who performed very very well on the Smash ballot and so they decided to add him. And it probably helped that DK as a series was still going, but I don't think there was some grand design besides him being a very popular fanbase pick.

I feel like it's a result of Nintendo being hyperfocused on gameplay functionality above all else. HAL manages the Kirby brand mostly by themselves so Nintendo doesn't intervene. But DK is an EAD/EPD IP despite being handled by Rare for the better part of a decade, so when it "came home," so to speak, Nintendo kept trying to tweak it on the margins to fit their vision of a gameplay-driven platformer (which is why the Tiki enemies all have obvious "you can touch this part, but not that part" designs). But now in an era where Nintendo is trying to become the video game equivalent of Disney, and turn their characters into marketable merchandise mascots, it seems completely counter-intuitive to hold onto this idea going forward. I'm a grown ass man who will buy K. Rool merchandise if you let me, Nintendo!
I agree that EPD has a streamlined approach to character inclusion, where they don't commonly include superfluous faces that don't serve some aspect of the gameplay. But it's also not so exclusive that they can't tie an inessential gameplay-wise but core character to some aspect of the game so that they still serve the design.

I mean, it's not like Balloon World in Odyssey needed Luigi as the host, but he's Luigi and he didn't have any other role in the game, so there he is. In AC, Resetti's old function was lost with autosave, but he was a fairly prominent character, so they just gave him a completely new function gameplay-wise.

In Jungle Beat, there were small generic chimps who would guide you forward and help you swing from place to place, and dance at the end of the level with DK, and with minor level tweaks (but no fundamental gameplay changes) those easily could've alternated between Diddy/Dixie/Tiny/etc following him & jumping to certain areas or re-appearing at various points in the level (the bonus levels with tons could stay generic).

And that would've required slightly different design of some parts of some levels, but there were sections where DK rode a giant wildebeest, barrelling through obstacles, and there's no reason that couldn't have been Rambi. Same with the orca and Enguarde. There were flying squirrels you could hold onto and gradually float down, there's no reason that couldn't have been Expresso. Same with the birds that carried you upward and Squawks. They had bee enemies, there's no reason they couldn't have been zingers. There are weird gooey launching pads that could've just been barrel cannons.

There were gameplay elements that easily could've been covered by existing, popular elements. Incorporating that stuff wouldn't have changed its gameplay at all. It's not that there was no room for it, in some instances Jungle Beat literally reuses DKC ideas without the DKC characters. It seems deliberate that they stripped away all DKC faces, minus DK himself.

Honestly to me it just seems like more of EPD/EAD's disregard for things they didn't create. Which, thankfully, is loosening as of late.
 
It seems to me that this is a bit arbitrary to say that not wanting to take ownership of work that isn't theirs is a proof of contempt. If EAD had despised Rare's work, they wouldn't have relaunched the Country brand at all with a release in 2010, nor worked with Rare on GBA ports before that, nor included tributes to Rare's work even in Retro Studios' games.

If EPD Tokyo is indeed in charge of the next DK game, and does not take over the Country brand, it will just mean that Koizumi team, as with Jungle Beat at the time, decide that they does not have the know-how or that they want to work on their own vision.

I mean, when Rare makes Donkey Kong Country with the goal of offering its own vision of the 2D platform or makes Banjo to offer its own vision of the 3D platform, no one accuses them of "despising EAD". They are just artists being creative. Koizumi has just as much right to be creative without hidden bitterness, right?

This perspective that Nintendo is never Western enough for our taste leads to things like Illumination deciding to include random pop songs instead of music from games.
 
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In Jungle Beat, there were small generic chimps who would guide you forward and help you swing from place to place, and dance at the end of the level with DK, and with minor level tweaks (but no fundamental gameplay changes) those easily could've alternated between Diddy/Dixie/Tiny/etc following him & jumping to certain areas or re-appearing at various points in the level (the bonus levels with tons could stay generic).

And that would've required slightly different design of some parts of some levels, but there were sections where DK rode a giant wildebeest, barrelling through obstacles, and there's no reason that couldn't have been Rambi. Same with the orca and Enguarde. There were flying squirrels you could hold onto and gradually float down, there's no reason that couldn't have been Expresso. Same with the birds that carried you upward and Squawks. They had bee enemies, there's no reason they couldn't have been zingers. There are weird gooey launching pads that could've just been barrel cannons.

There were gameplay elements that easily could've been covered by existing, popular elements. Incorporating that stuff wouldn't have changed its gameplay at all. It's not that there was no room for it, in some instances Jungle Beat literally reuses DKC ideas without the DKC characters. It seems deliberate that they stripped away all DKC faces, minus DK himself.

Honestly to me it just seems like more of EPD/EAD's disregard for things they didn't create. Which, thankfully, is loosening as of late.
Koizumi addressed this in an interview, which for many years had been infamously mistranslated as a statement that Rare's characters "weren't fresh enough for today's audiences". I say "mistranslated", but it's more like just "lying maliciously", since that bore no relation to what he actually said. The original was retranslated variably by several people in 2019, but all of them say generally the same thing: "everything besides Donkey Kong and the banana is original because the game turned out to have a personality uncharacteristic of previous Donkey Kong games. I hope EAD Tokyo was able to leave their own mark". ...This should be pretty understandable to anyone who's played Jungle Beat.

Whether they explicitly intended to do their own thing from the beginning or realized their bizarre visions just didn't mesh with Rare's creations later is unclear. I would surmise the latter, because why directly reskin so many DKC elements if you were deliberately going in a completely new direction and the game is otherwise so different? But in any case, I don't think this is the same sort of thing that keeps Waluigi and the like sidelined. There was definitely some weirdness regarding what Retro could and could not do later on, probably because those games coincided with Nintendo's peak of being suffocating about how anyone outside EAD could use their properties, but in the 2000's it seems like Nintendo did take their newfound stewardship of the universe Rare built somewhat seriously. There are implications they went to the effort of making Mario-fied redesigns of most of the characters without having any explicit reason to, which we mainly saw used in Paon's games but would pop up in random places as late as Smash Wii U. Nintendo ended up not making any Donkey Kong games themselves besides Jungle Beat (in fact I think it's to this day the only Donkey Kong game actually developed by Nintendo proper), so we never really received much context for how they would have handled the series internally outside of this one extremely weird production.
 
Yeah I was just clarifying my original point lol.

This general uncertainty with the DK series right now is just making me uneasy. Nearly a decade without even an announcement of a new game is insane.
I don't think there's much to worry about anymore. I think DK is returning and fairly soon.

LOVE your Rouge avatar by the way!
 


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