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Discussion CinemaBlend pulls Turning Red Review by managing director Sean O'Connell

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“Some Pixar films are made for a universal audience,” O’Connell tweeted. “The target audience for this one feels very specific, and very narrow. If you are in it, this might work well for you. I am not in it. This was exhausting.”

Archive link: http://web.archive.org/web/20220307...ixars-latest-comedy-girls-just-wanna-have-fur
 
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It sure takes a special kind of person to
  • fail to empathize with a character's story because they don't look like / sound like him
  • believe that is a valid criticism of the work
  • publish a review on behalf of an organization reflecting that view
 
You can just tell a person's skin shade because they thought a paragraph like in the op was a thing anyone should ever think, let alone publish
 
"These people aren't like me, so I can't relate to them" is a really weird train of thought given that for decades the US had successful sitcoms with casts of black people that covered varying topics, themes, economic classes, etc. Maybe if the internet was prolific back then we would be getting takes about how white critics can't relate to the Cosbys, but this feels like a very specific culture war issue fought in the last few years by the far right that has trickled down to this sort of "well meaning" racism where if a person can't immediately identify a tangible relatable point of reference, it might as well be about aliens to them.

I haven't seen the movie, but having been a middle schooler before, I cannot imagine "middle school comedy with on-the-nose puberty symbolism" is suddenly unrecognizable to this person, an American adult who had been in middle school and gone through puberty, just because it's about an Asian girl in Toronto.

Most people generally don't care about this stuff, the success of movies like Crazy Rich Asians and Black Panther are a testament to that, so I guess sentiments like this are just the exception to the rule.
 
Yeah, Pixar should go back to making movies about the general public consisting of rats who can cook.
 
At least this guy was very up front, there's a lot of unconscious bias that folks don't think about.


Movies have always been for a certain group, everyone else has just been forced to accept that as the norm.
 
"Main character isn't a white male so I can't relate" is just such a weird, weird thing and feels like such a recent thing too. My lily white ass from rural bumblefuck had no problem identifying with the characters in Fresh Prince or whatever else growing up in the 90s, and neither did any of my fellow mayos. Maybe it's because representation is generally better now than it was 30 years ago and white people are scared? I dunno.
 
It sure takes a special kind of person to
  • fail to empathize with a character's story because they don't look like / sound like him
  • believe that is a valid criticism of the work
  • publish a review on behalf of an organization reflecting that view
And then apologize by saying "I didn't explain myself well enough"
 
cis white guys stop embarrassing yourselves
 
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I really dislike that the conversation even is about relatability. Like, why would the movie even need to be relatable to be empathized with, let alone just be a good movie? Focusing on just that is closed minded at best - some real clown behavior going on here.

Also, Turning Red was extremely good. If you are reading this thread and haven't watched it (and have access to a Disney+ account), do yourself a favor and watch it. Heartwarming, sharp, and stylish.
 
By rooting Indiana Jones very specifically in a community of chiseled archeologists, the film feels a tad limiting in its scope. There’s an audience out there for Indiana Jones. And when that audience finds the movie, I’ve no doubt they will celebrate it for the unique animal that it is. In my opinion, however, that audience is relatively small, and I’m not part of it.

This review is gonna be a treasure trove of cringe copypasta potential, yall.
 
Okay I finally found the time to sit down and watch this. I'm five minutes in and this is already the best thing I've seen Pixar do in YEARS, holy damn ❤️
 
Okay I just finished the sketchbook scene and I gotta say as a 36-year-old white male I have no problem whatsoever relating to this movie.
 
I liked it a lot, but didn't love it. To me, it's a film that suffers from really mixed messaging.

The stuff just focusing on Mei having to deal with being a thirteen year old girl is great, and it's honestly fantastic that an animated film has finally been able to address female adolescence in a way that's honest and funny.

However, the film also suffers from a weirdly pro-capitalist theme that undermines a lot of the more positive stuff. If the red panda is symbolic of Mei having to deal with adolescence as a thirteen year old girl, then having the main story arc centre around Mei's friends encouraging her to let other kids at school touch her, film her and invite her to parties in exchange for money is just... What?

Or the way that Mei's family try to use "traditional" (within the context of the film) Chinese methods to contain the final threat, but are unsuccessful in doing so until the manufactured American boy band decide to use this as an opportunity to shill their latest single, which then saves the day.

Or the way that Mei's family temple in the ending is literally turned into a merch stand where visitors can buy red panda t shirts, red panda lunchboxes, etc. And the film sells this as a good thing.

There's a really good film about being a teenager in there, somewhat smothered by what feels like a weird bit of corporate apologia.
 
I liked it a lot, but didn't love it. To me, it's a film that suffers from really mixed messaging.

The stuff just focusing on Mei having to deal with being a thirteen year old girl is great, and it's honestly fantastic that an animated film has finally been able to address female adolescence in a way that's honest and funny.

However, the film also suffers from a weirdly pro-capitalist theme that undermines a lot of the more positive stuff. If the red panda is symbolic of Mei having to deal with adolescence as a thirteen year old girl, then having the main story arc centre around Mei's friends encouraging her to let other kids at school touch her, film her and invite her to parties in exchange for money is just... What?

Or the way that Mei's family try to use "traditional" (within the context of the film) Chinese methods to contain the final threat, but are unsuccessful in doing so until the manufactured American boy band decide to use this as an opportunity to shill their latest single, which then saves the day.

Or the way that Mei's family temple in the ending is literally turned into a merch stand where visitors can buy red panda t shirts, red panda lunchboxes, etc. And the film sells this as a good thing.

There's a really good film about being a teenager in there, somewhat smothered by what feels like a weird bit of corporate apologia.
I thought the main themes were choice and acceptance. She is right there when the other girls say how much they love the panda. There was never any coercion about getting her to be the panda for money.

The panda is more about her coming out of her shell of adolescence to teenhood, much like inside out. What her friends push her to do is go out with them, to do what she wants to do, not what her mom wants to do, which is the whole beginning of the movie where she even said it's all right that she is her mother.

There's a point in the movie where one of the men explain that you can sing literally anything they just choose to sing an older song. So it wasn't about newness over tradition, it was that it's okay to allow modernization into tradition. The boy band didn't override them, they harmonized with them, that end beat was sick.

And they were always a temple doing their thing for money, but now they're self-reliant to the point of building wealth. So yeah it has a capitalist tinge because the American dream is how we're mentally equipped to survive this hellscape, but them succeeding by using family resources is overall a good thing.
 
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Saw this last night and I really enjoyed it. You can tell the animators and storyboarders are big anime fans, Sailor Moon especially with how they do over the top expressions/gestures. Hope we see more of this style in Pixar going forward.
 
I thought the main themes was were choice and acceptance. She is right there when the other girls say how much they love the panda. There was never any coercion about getting her to be the panda for money.

The panda is more about her coming out of her shell of adolescence to teenhood, much like inside out. What her friends push her to do is go out with them, to do what she wants to do, not what her mom wants to do, which is the whole beginning of the movie where she even said it's all right that she is her mother.

There's a point in the movie where one of the men explain that you can sing literally anything they just choose to sing an older song. So it wasn't about newness over tradition, it was that it's okay to allow modernization into tradition. The boy band didn't override them, they harmonized with them, that end beat was sick.

And they were always a temple doing their thing for money, but now they're self-reliant to the point of building wealth. So yeah it has a capitalist tinge because the American dream is how we're mentally equipped to survive this hellscape, but them succeeding by using family resources is overall a good thing.
Agree with all this, and don't forget that the temple-making-money angle in the end was shown to be them trying to raise money to rebuild the stadium they trashed. So it's even less of a capitalist tinge than accused.

Saw this last night and I really enjoyed it. You can tell the animators and storyboarders are big anime fans, Sailor Moon especially with how they do over the top expressions/gestures. Hope we see more of this style in Pixar going forward.
There are several blink-and-you-miss-it moments where there appeared to be some anime-styled 2D hand-drawn effects during some extreme movements, as well.
 
I thought the main themes were choice and acceptance. She is right there when the other girls say how much they love the panda. There was never any coercion about getting her to be the panda for money.

The incident where Mei ends up being paid to go to a party is clearly framed as something she's not comfortable with, and to be completely honest, it's a strange thing to put in a kid's film in general.

If you want to make a film with stuff for kids to takeaway, then the idea of monetizing social interactions at parties as a way for young girls to buy things they want is just... I get why they wanted the extra drama in the story, but the implications are unfortunate.

The panda is more about her coming out of her shell of adolescence to teenhood, much like inside out.

The panda is clearly meant to have associations not just with the onset of menstruation (Mei's bathroom conversation with her parents), but with Mei developing attraction to the opposite sex (her romantic drawings of the store clerk are what lead to the onset of the red panda condition in the first place). The connotation is clearly there that this isn't just about Mei coming out of her shell, but specifically dealing with the onset and effects of puberty. To that end, the decision to monetize the panda is a weird one. Even if you remove the puberty angle, the moral seems to be that monetizing your social interactions is a form of self-emancipation.

There's a point in the movie where one of the men explain that you can sing literally anything they just choose to sing an older song. So it wasn't about newness over tradition, it was that it's okay to allow modernization into tradition. The boy band didn't override them, they harmonized with them, that end beat was sick.

The song itself is a banger, but you can listen to that final version on Spotify: the family ritual chanting literally becomes a backing beat for the boy band to sing on top of.
And they were always a temple doing their thing for money, but now they're self-reliant to the point of building wealth. So yeah it has a capitalist tinge because the American dream is how we're mentally equipped to survive this hellscape, but them succeeding by using family resources is overall a good thing.
Before the ending of the film, they were offering tours of the temple to visitors, explaining their cultural heritage and how their specific beliefs work in a purely educational fashion.

At the ending, the temple has literally become a Disneyworld style merch stand, and Mei's panda form is an attraction. The temple has gone from being an educational place to a theme park. This may not be surprising seeing as its Disney, and their entire business model is merchandise and theme parks, but it is there.
 
I am absolutely loving the more intimate character-focused/slice of life stories Pixar has been doing lately with Luca and now Turning Red. Feels more like something I would expect out of a Ghibli movie or something like Lilo and Stitch, which is absolutely my jam.

Also both movies just feel so much more fun thanks to the exaggerated over the top expressions and animation of the characters. Beth movies had parts that I would rewind immediately just because I wanted to see some characters facial expression or funny animation they did again. It’s something Sony has done well with their movies recently with Spiderverse and Mitchell’s vs the Machines, and I’m glad to see Pixar is doing it too.

Or the way that Mei's family try to use "traditional" (within the context of the film) Chinese methods to contain the final threat, but are unsuccessful in doing so until the manufactured American boy band decide to use this as an opportunity to shill their latest single, which then saves the day.

Or the way that Mei's family temple in the ending is literally turned into a merch stand where visitors can buy red panda t shirts, red panda lunchboxes, etc. And the film sells this as a good thing.

There's a really good film about being a teenager in there, somewhat smothered by what feels like a weird bit of corporate apologia.

See, the way I read that scene in the end with the boy band and the aunts as a metaphor for the experience of the children of immigrants. Its a way to show that you don’t need to choose between your cultural heritage (the aunts chanting) or the things you enjoy and the connections you have made (the boy band), but rather how both can work together. I don’t think the song is supposed to be read as the boy band vocals overpowering the aunts, but instead as both of them harmonising together to do what just one alone wouldn’t be able to achieve.

I think that the family temple is also a way of showing the migrant experience. As people of colour who are trying to fit into their new home Mei’s family have had to tokenise themselves and their culture in order to make it palatable to Toronto and fit into society. But as a consequence of trying to fit into this society less and less knowledge is passed down from generation to generation. The purpose of the temple at the start might be ‘education’, but her family still never tell her about the panda, she doesn’t know any Cantonese, so it’s not like it’s anything more than the presentation of their culture in a way that allows them to survive and co-exist in their society. The panda has connotations with adolescence and individuality and self expression, but also her cultural heritage I think. Thus at the end of the movie where she doesn’t see it as a curse anymore, but the blessing it was originally intended to be, which she uses to help her family and change the temple to adapt to the new expectations and demands of society, which as you’ve noted is unfortunately capitalist. That’s something I hadn’t realised myself until your post, and it’s definitely something to think about.

That got a bit too rambly, but that’s all just my interpretation, and as a white man I could be totally off base and apparently can’t relate to this movie anyway so 🤷‍♀️
 
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I finally watched this tonight and god damn I adored every part of it. Fuck this review and O’Connell— no part of this was tiring or unrelatable. I’m not a woman, Asian or Canadian and had no trouble laughing, tearing up, and enjoying this beautiful story. What a disgusting review, and what weak apologies.
 
Before the ending of the film, they were offering tours of the temple to visitors, explaining their cultural heritage and how their specific beliefs work in a purely educational fashion.

At the ending, the temple has literally become a Disneyworld style merch stand, and Mei's panda form is an attraction. The temple has gone from being an educational place to a theme park. This may not be surprising seeing as its Disney, and their entire business model is merchandise and theme parks, but it is there.

I mean, yes it also becomes the latter.. but what stops it from still being the former? I think what that scene was attempting to show was rather the expanded and more diverse audience that the temple was drawing in after going “viral”. I agree that it felt off, but I don’t think it’s a reflection of Disney’s business model or has any sinister sort of intention.

Also, I absolutely adore that this movie was so blatant with references to sex, periods and drugs. Like hell fucking yeah to any kid watching this who has their eyes opened to not have to spend their childhood tip-toeing around those sort of things with their parents. It made my heart so happy.
 
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I can hear this fanart
 


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