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Discussion Breath of the Wild or Tears of the Kingdom

Which was better?

  • Breath of the Wild

    Votes: 116 41.6%

  • Tears of the Kingdom

    Votes: 163 58.4%
  • Total voters
    279
Tears. BotW just did not click with me at all. Tears was incredibly fun to just explore the world, mostly due to how amazing the Ascend ability is.
 
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I think BotW is a significantly better game. TotK isn’t even in my top 5 Zeldas.
TotK’s puzzles are not good, they didn’t do enough with the Hyrule map to make it different, the depths were an awesome idea executed incredibly poorly, there aren’t enough sky islands, the dungeons are worse than the Divine Beasts (they definitely made a huge improvement with aesthetics and the lead up to the dungeons are good), there’s too many shrines and very few are engaging, I think they made the player too powerful with all the abilities, it’s incredibly frustrating how almost everyone in Hyrule forgot Link exists, I could go on for awhile.

I don’t think TotK is bad or anything, I just don’t think it’s a is an effective follow up to BotW.
 
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Irene said:
First of all, welcome!

Itv was a long post indeed, and lots to address, but I'd like to add here that I agree with this, and how it can partially work against the game. The Zonai are these priest-like, timid, god creatures, but they made wacky stuff like springs, rockets and planes etc, which in some cases feels wildly out of character, in a way that the Sheikah tech never felt.

A friend of mine criticised BotW for being "We can't have the narrative gravitas of older Zeldas because video game" and I think that rings even more true in TotK.

That is why the Construct Factory was my favourite part of the game, because it actually felt like it added some depth and context to the gamey aspects. Like when exploring it, it felt like Ultrahand was this mysterious and powerful Zonai power and that the Zonai devices were these incredible things they built partially for the Hylians to utilize to build their society and partially also because of scientific curiosity.

Applying this reasoning and theorizing to the rest of the game, however, feels like it requires much bigger suspension of disbelief. I can understand and buy that the shrines are the surface part of the lightroots, and the lightroots were made to illuminate/cleanse the Depths, but why are they filled with, like, obstacle courses?

Well, because video game.
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Exactly this!

I really liked that part too. I also liked how the gloom ruining weapons gave context to weapon breakability and fuse. All the soldiers commenting on it and being baffled, trying to fix it by attaching things was a cool detail (even if it's still more game logic than real world logic). And seeing Zelda and Sonia use recall.

The shrines are a great example. They try too hard to keep the Zonai mysterious, so things end up shapeless. Why do we barely see them use their tech? Where do they sleep? Why did they have Gacha dispensers? Why are there colosseums in the depths? Why was Ganon in the Depths when they fought? What's the deal with Draconification, how do they even know it happens? Where is Sonia and Rauru's kid? You can guess some things, but it feels like there are important chunks of context missing. It feels a bit like Rauru is a king with no people, we don't ever see an old hyrule settlement. The sages, the few characters from the past that we see, are always masked and never feel like people. When for the entire game you don't even know why there are ruins in the sky - the Upheaval is the centerpiece like the Calamity was for BotW - and only get a vague explanation in a sidequest, it's a problem. It's all too detached.

They could have added this context in cutscenes - after each dungeon for example, instead of the same cutscene repeating. By adding lore to the new geography - Sky, Depths, Caves - with new buildings, characters, maybe a lost city of descendants (like the Korok were to the Kokiri in Wind Waker). By having characters interact more naturally, like Mineru's spirit giving a deeper speech or speaking to Purah, or having the archaeologists find something more meaningful.

Design dissonance is definitely a thing too; there's the goofiness of much of the tech and dispensers, the big imposing Aztec-Mesopotamian roughness of the ruins on land, the elegant Buddhist-Ancient Shinto designs of the shrines and sky ruins, and Rauru and Mineru's demeanor. It doesn't combine into a clear full picture, like puzzle pieces that don't fit well.

In essence: in BotW, when I see something cool like the Temple of Time, Typhlo Ruins, Akkala Citadel I think "wow, I wonder what happened here, what this was like in the past". If there is a Guardian in a remote place I think "how did it get here" and wonder about how far-reaching the destruction was. In ToTK I don't - and on the rare times I do it doesn't feel like my curiosity is rewarded.
 
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Can BotW do this?



but tbh, I don't know, I like and enjoy each of them for different reasons. I was late to BotW hype, only played the game in 2020 but it got me and made me look forward to TotK, and can see a lot of things TotK do way better than BotW. But the magic of BotW is hard to replicate, even harder in the same maps, that is why the magic of wonder, the first time seeing this Hyrule is replaced by what has been changed, is it here before or is it new that makes me curious.
 
Irene said:
First of all, welcome!

Itv was a long post indeed, and lots to address, but I'd like to add here that I agree with this, and how it can partially work against the game. The Zonai are these priest-like, timid, god creatures, but they made wacky stuff like springs, rockets and planes etc, which in some cases feels wildly out of character, in a way that the Sheikah tech never felt.
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I definitely agree with this but feel a bit the opposite in that I actually really like the contrast.

It’s obviously done because of Nintendo’s gameplay-first mindset, but when you’re building all these quirky out-of-place contraptions in the giant playground that of the Sky, it leant the game some of that weird, offbeat Zelda feel that I really enjoyed.

I think I give Zelda more “it’s okay if it doesn’t make sense/actually enhances the experience if it doesn’t make sense” leeway than others here, it seems though.
 
I think it's worth noting that the idea that engineering ability and mysticism are diametrically opposed is not really borne out by history. Pope Sylvester II is credited as the inventor of the first mechanical clock, and he and Roger Bacon were both rumored to have mechanical heads which told them secrets like the Sheikah Slate or Gossip Stones. Pythagoras was the leader of a religious cult. Ibn Sina was a Muslim philosopher, but also the father of early modern medicine. A lot of medical and technological advancements came from mystics, priests, etc. It's only in modern times, where the secular world has been divorced from the spiritual one much more than it ever was before, that technology and spirituality are considered disconnected and incongruous.
 
The openness of the puzzle solving in TotK is really interesting in that it’s cool that there are so many ways to solve them, but it’s to a point where almost all the puzzles in the game are too easy because of this.

I think BotW struck that balance way better, as silly fun as the building stuff can be. It was just the right amount of cheese.
 
JorgenRaft said:
It was just the right amount of cheese
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I have to disagree with this. There was much less incentive to get creative in BotW because the intended solution was much, much easier than fiddling around with Stasis or Magnesis (barring a few situations, like using weapons/shields as conductors for electricity). As such, the puzzles were rather simple and straightforward.

In Tears, I was always cobbling together contraptions, thinking “Will this work?” Sure I could just build a ramp and call it a day, but I could also launch myself with a catapult. Stuff like that.

Phendrift said:
it’s okay if it doesn’t make sense
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I’m in the same boat. Or rather, I don’t care about story/lore if the gameplay is fun.
 
meatbag said:
I have to disagree with this. There was much less incentive to get creative in BotW because the intended solution was much, much easier than fiddling around with Stasis or Magnesis (barring a few situations, like using weapons/shields as conductors for electricity). As such, the puzzles were rather simple and straightforward.

In Tears, I was always cobbling together contraptions, thinking “Will this work?” Sure I could just build a ramp and call it a day, but I could also launch myself with a catapult. Stuff like that.


I’m in the same boat. Or rather, I don’t care about story/lore if the gameplay is fun.
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For me the series has always had a fairy tale vibe, stuff not being explained or even contradictory adds to the mysticism
 
meatbag said:
I have to disagree with this. There was much less incentive to get creative in BotW because the intended solution was much, much easier than fiddling around with Stasis or Magnesis (barring a few situations, like using weapons/shields as conductors for electricity). As such, the puzzles were rather simple and straightforward.

In Tears, I was always cobbling together contraptions, thinking “Will this work?” Sure I could just build a ramp and call it a day, but I could also launch myself with a catapult. Stuff like that.
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Yeah I can see that stance on it. For me, in BotW, it felt like there was an intended solution where you had to get really creative if you wanted to cheese it otherwise. In TotK, I think the intended solution is still often spelled out for us but alternative cheese was always too easy, between all the gadgets you get and times you can take advantage of Ultrahand + Recall. I still think it's fun that you can solve them in so many ways, but to me it just made solving the puzzles a bit less satisfying.
 
Phendrift said:
I definitely agree with this but feel a bit the opposite in that I actually really like the contrast.

It’s obviously done because of Nintendo’s gameplay-first mindset, but when you’re building all these quirky out-of-place contraptions in the giant playground that of the Sky, it leant the game some of that weird, offbeat Zelda feel that I really enjoyed.

I think I give Zelda more “it’s okay if it doesn’t make sense/actually enhances the experience if it doesn’t make sense” leeway than others here, it seems though.
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I agree with this!
The contrast gives it a liveliness that is very fun, and the game has it's own vibrant feel. Both games are great, it comes down to what resonates with you more I think. For me the balance in TotK is a bit off.

BotW had a lot of offbeat/silly things already:
child Purah, Robbie and Cherry, great fairies, Horse god, huge horse, rideable Satori and bears, flower lady, Beedle, Kilton, Hestu, Patricia the seal, Gerudo dating lessons, Sidon's cartoony behaviour, the Bolson dance and questline, Yiga boss fight, the painter that looks like a paintbrush, watermelon Gerudo polluter side quest, the Sheikah pad looking like a wiiu controller, the abilities themselves such as Magnesis being just Link holding a giant magnet, selfies, shield surfing and golf, a bunch of weird NPCs and dialogue, etcetc.

The Divine Beasts themselves are strange and fairytale-like. A giant elephant-machine that is producing endless rain and throws ice blocks at you. Trying to get a rogue laser-shooting giant mecha-bird to sit on its massive perch with a heart-shaped hole on top of a village. Even the final boss itself (first phase) is super weird! The contrast of engineering+magic was already there, it just felt better integrated to me.

And a lot of the contrast comes from the unexpected way NPCs react to things you do, like talking to them shirtless or bringing a bear to the stable, and the physics+abilities creating unexpected situations. TotK takes that to 11.
 
It's Tears easily.

They have their own set of obvious pros and cons but it's Tears. It improved upon a masterpiece.

Like just watching my baby cousin after Thanksgiving dinner be creative with ToTK's mechanics in a way my adult cynical brain couldn't be is almost as fun as playing it myself.
 
Definitely BotW. TotK could have been much better without the reused overworld and the repetetive sky and dephts. It feels rather like an Expansion pass than a sequel. I think the reason for this lies in their development approach. Aonuma stated in an „ask the developer“ interview:
Aonuma: That reminds me of how the word “déjà vu” cropped up many times during development. We were supposed to be making something different, but the various things we made gave off a similar impression to what we'd done previously.
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He even encouraged them letting things unchanged. The problem of TotK is that instead of learning from the mistakes of it’s predecessor it doubles down on them: weapons break even faster, hundreds of samey looking shrines, 4 short dungeons with basically the same plot of BotW, no progression after the tutorial etc.. But it would just be half as bad if they didn‘t reuse the overworld which undermines the reason BotW was fun despite it flaws: Exploration. The dephts (which are only one biome with the majority of it autogenerated) and the sky islands (with the same few islands copy and pasted over and over) can‘t act as a replacement for a new overworld. The core gameplay and ultrahand are fun but get quite repetetive after a while (unless you are an engineer). TotK wouldn‘t be bad as a standalone game, it just isn‘t good as a sequel.
 
I do think BotW didn't need a sequel, but I understand it was the perfect canvas for the building system that TotK had, which is almost as innovative as the "BotW open world formula" although, probably not that influential.
 
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totk could have only added the caves and it would have been enough to be the better game. but then there's also all the other neat stuff too
 
I think the only thing BotW does better than TotK is being the first time you experience that world and gameplay loop. Other than that, TotK is superior in every way.
 
I have to say all these Zelda YouTubers who were making videos left and right, all in jubilation are having problems with this game sucks. Monster Maze, Bandit games, Hyrule Gamer, etc have all complained there’s no lore to TOTK. They don’t see to care to make videos on it.
 
Dark Cloud said:
I have to say all these Zelda YouTubers who were making videos left and right, all in jubilation are having problems with this game sucks. Monster Maze, Bandit games, Hyrule Gamer, etc have all complained there’s no lore to TOTK. They don’t see to care to make videos on it.
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There's still a ton of lore videos about TotK, they're just from smaller YouTubers. So I wouldn't put too much stock into the fact that, like, Ratatoskr hosted a "Zelda complaints" podcast episode with MM and Bandit.
 
I feel like Tears of the Kingdom is better than Breath of the Wild is almost every way including gameplay, dungeons, bosses, story, side quests, ending.

However, Breath of the Wild will always be more special because of the impact it had in terms of laying the ground work for what a game like Tears of the Kingdom could become.
 
Irene said:
There's still a ton of lore videos about TotK, they're just from smaller YouTubers. So I wouldn't put too much stock into the fact that, like, Ratatoskr hosted a "Zelda complaints" podcast episode with MM and Bandit.
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They're so full of it, really. It's basically that TotK didn't match their theories and now they're confusing that for the game actually having no story/lore.
 
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Not sure if it’s the same for those mainstream YouTubers but personally I have no interest in discussing Totk lore. The Oot callbacks, depths locations, fan service tunics becoming canon and zonai tech, among other things, puts it into Spirit Track tier of lore that is better to pretend that never happened. They shoehorned a lot of stuff that even ruins BOTW lore for me.
 
balgajo said:
Not sure if it’s the same for those mainstream YouTubers but personally I have no interest in discussing Totk lore. The Oot callbacks, depths locations, fan service tunics becoming canon and zonai tech, among other things, puts it into Spirit Track tier of lore that is better to pretend that never happened. They shoehorned a lot of stuff that even ruins BOTW lore for me.
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those tunics were in botw too though
 
I'm not surprised that Zelda loreheads aren't that into Tears of the Kingdom. A lot of Zelda lore depends on theorizing about somewhat tenuous connections between games in the hopes that they will be confirmed later outside of the games (like the Hero's Shade being OoT Link) and trying to fill gaps that were intentionally left open.

BotW was as far removed from previous Zelda games while still leaving a little bit of room for theorycrafting. Then comes TotK along and flips the table completely. As someone who thinks that Nintendo releasing an "official" timeline was one of their biggest mistakes in regards to the series I personally couldn't care less about TotK's placement in it. But I can certainly empathize with some of the frustration surrounding the lore situation.
 
Dark Cloud said:
I have to say all these Zelda YouTubers who were making videos left and right, all in jubilation are having problems with this game sucks. Monster Maze, Bandit games, Hyrule Gamer, etc have all complained there’s no lore to TOTK. They don’t see to care to make videos on it.
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I've seen a few of these and all it made me think was "new here?". Like, the series just straight up has never prioritized this (for the better imo) and it's funny to see all these people getting all mad because it's drying up their content mills.
 
Dardan Sandiego said:
I'm not surprised that Zelda loreheads aren't that into Tears of the Kingdom. A lot of Zelda lore depends on theorizing about somewhat tenuous connections between games in the hopes that they will be confirmed later outside of the games (like the Hero's Shade being OoT Link) and trying to fill gaps that were intentionally left open.

BotW was as far removed from previous Zelda games while still leaving a little bit of room for theorycrafting. Then comes TotK along and flips the table completely. As someone who thinks that Nintendo releasing an "official" timeline was one of their biggest mistakes in regards to the series I personally couldn't care less about TotK's placement in it. But I can certainly empathize with some of the frustration surrounding the lore situation.
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Were YouTubers really speculating about BotW placement? At the end of the days once you analysed the handful of key references (Zelda's speech, Zora tables, "the Calamity was once a Gerudo"), you don't have anything else to do, and weighting something more than than something else is a matter of personal preference.

I though YouTubers were more into the Zonai lore, which has been basically rewritten by TotK.
 
Gingerbread Man said:
Were YouTubers really speculating about BotW placement? At the end of the days once you analysed the handful of key references (Zelda's speech, Zora tables, "the Calamity was once a Gerudo"), you don't have anything else to do, and weighting something more than than something else is a matter of personal preference.

I though YouTubers were more into the Zonai lore, which has been basically rewritten by TotK.
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Not just the placement specifically but ties to the rest of the series in general, i.e. Calamity Ganondorf, the Sheikah etc. People had lots of theories and questions that Nintendo were very unconcerned about answering in TotK because they didn't deem them as super interesting.

The Zonai stuff is actually a pretty great example of people getting way too invested in elaborate YouTube theories and then ending up disappointed when things turn out differently from what they imagined. Whatever theories people dreamt up in the last 6 years were entertaining for sure but also built on an extremely flimsy foundation.
 
Yeah, Zonai lore wasn't really rewritten because all we knew about them was that they were an ancient civilization that had statues of dragons, boars, and owls. Creating a Champion added that they had powerful magic, which is still true in TotK, but everything else was pure speculation on the part of theorists. Everything we knew about them in BotW holds true in TotK.
 
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Funnily enough I don’t even think TOTK answered the specific questions theorycrafters raised about the Zonai in BotW. Sometime during the fifth Sage quest, I swear an NPC says about the Faron Zonai ruins that they‘re even more ancient than the Sky Island ruins that popped up.

So from there I always got the impression the Rauru era and founding of Hyrule predates the Sheikah and Calamity, but comes after the era of the barbarian tribe Zonai who’s ruins appeared first in BotW in the labyrinths and Faron and that there’s still some mystery there (especially with the voices in TOTK’s labyrinths saying they’re the boar god or owl god and that never really being seen anywhere else)

Those lingering threads are one thing that make me think the next game will use this lore again, but I’m not foolish enough to assume that with Nintendo lol. They’ll do what they want.
 
Phendrift said:
Funnily enough I don’t even think TOTK answered the specific questions theorycrafters raised about the Zonai in BotW. Sometime during the fifth Sage quest, I swear an NPC says about the Faron Zonai ruins that they‘re even more ancient than the Sky Island ruins that popped up.
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I'm not sure if Calip is saying that the ruins are more ancient, or if he's just saying they were there even before the Upheaval revealed all that other Zonai stuff in the sky. Either way there's definitely ambiguity and mystery surrounding the general civilization of the Zonai because we don't know what they were like when there were more of them than just Rauru and Mineru, don't know the general timeline of when they built various things found across the different layers of the game map, and we also don't know how the Ancient Hero factors in since his spirit is found in the Temple of Time in the sky and he has some Zonai-ish traits but he would've existed long after the last two known ones died. But personally I don't mind there continuing to be some mystery, there were about 20 years between Ocarina of Time introducing the Sheikah and Breath of the Wild putting them at the forefront of the plot and setting, so you never know if something will be delved into with more detail.
 
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