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Discussion Anyone else want botw 2 to be just a little more challenging after playing elden ring?

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BlueManifest

BlueManifest

Bob-omb
It doesn’t have to be as hard but I would like atleast a few deaths from the boss fights

I would also like more things to find to in the world besides weapons, hearts and rupees

Are there any other changes your hoping Nintendo makes for zelda for future releases? I don’t think it would hurt the franchise to shake it up just a little more while still keeping the core of Zelda

I think elden ring needs a little bit of Zelda and Zelda needs a little bit of elden ring, something in between the 2
 
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BotW's difficulty is fine to me, I'd like a larger variety of enemies to fight though but I have good hopes they'll fix that, a larger pool of different types of enemies introduces more challenge in an organic way by itself.
 
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BlueManifest said:
It was but not by much
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I'm gonna have to disagree with you strongly here. I died only a handful of times between Ocarina and Skyward Sword, because those games were so generous with hearts and enemies were never much stronger than your armor.

In contrast, one of the first things I had to adjust to in BOTW was that even the Bokoblins were able to kill you in about two hits when all you had were tattered clothing and branches. Lynels get a lot of attention, but there were so many mundane things in that game that can one-shot you. That represented a significant jump in difficulty over previous Zeldas.

Personally, my hope is that the world in the sequel is similarly dangerous. After that, there are so many things I would thrilled to see in the game ahead of some attempt to emulate combat in Souls games.
 
Why should it be more difficult? Should games be more challenging ? What's the purpose of BOTW 2 being harder than BOTW 1 when it wasn't the goal/intention of the game to be hard and it's not an integral part of the game
 
It would go a long way to just make healing realtime instead of Ina menu. Don't think they need to change much else
 
I think they can add a lot more useful items to the world without hurting traditional zelda

I don’t want to go into a shrine and know what’s in there before I even complete it, I want to be surprised at what I find
 
I only felt like Botw was lacking difficulty with the final boss which was too easy and they were stuck between making your progress worth it and just making it a challenge. Like it would have needed a new form between the Beast fight outside, and also that boss should have made more waves like spawning enemies and just better aiming.

Overall i feel like there was enough challenge in the game. Lynels and Guardians assured a good difficulty until maybe mid-game. Thunderblight was one of the hardest boss in Zelda games. Wind blight and Fire Blight weren't too bad either tbf. Water blight was on the other hand, way too easy.

So what i would want them to learn from ER isn't the difficulty, but it's just that at some point you learn how to fight these boss and enemies cause they just get stronger but they have basically the same pattern mechanics. There is some sort of difficulty you find in just trying to figure out how to kill what's in front of you. I do wish they learn from it too by giving us more overworld secret boss as rewards instead of shrines.
 
No, not at all. Same reason why I didn't think Elden Ring needed to let you climb walls or have environmental interactivity on the same level as BotW. I've rarely liked games more because of higher difficulty anyways

BlueManifest said:
I think they can add a lot more useful items to the world without hurting traditional zelda

I don’t want to go into a shrine and know what’s in there before I even complete it, I want to be surprised at what I find
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Well that's a completely different thing than wanting BotW 2 to be more challenging like Elden Ring 😋

Never mind that some had armor or material to make your armor better or contained weapons inside them
 
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BlueManifest said:
Yes it had armor, you know what I mean though
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I suppose I don't know what you mean. I assumed you were referring to collectibles. If by "more things to find" you mean extra dungeons, bosses, or sidequests then sure, BotW had those but I'd like a greater variety.
 
I am of the opinion that final bosses in the game should be easier than prior bosses. To me, they are a victory lap. That final set piece on my horse with beast ganon was very cinematic and was just a victory lap. The first Ganon fight in the castle is not bad at all, unless you don't do the divine beasts. Then it is a pain in the ass.

Other than that, I found BoTW quite challenging. You had to be careful because getting overwhelmed can really fuck you over.

The game is already challenging, and it has some of the best puzzles in the series. Some of those shrines really tested my critical thinking skills.

Not every game needs to be Elden Ring nor every game needs to be BoTW. I like Souls games for what they are, and even then, open world does not make a game better. Demons and Dark Souls are still the best formula for the Souls series when it comes to world layout, which was already open anyway.
 
Just add hard mode from the start and not as paid DLC. Though that mode was just health regeneration rather than more difficult encounters. I do agree on having creative solutions to challenges, but I honestly think that’s down to me not having a good imagination/understanding of systems. Seeing what people are doing even 5 years out shows this stuff is in there.
 
I was fine with BOTW difficulty at some extent, especially the plateau section. Main grip is that during a fight you could use infinity food to recover yourself or, if you had no food, you could use 100 of your 400+ apples(did this during final fight). That felt really broken.

Thinking about this I remembered that Twilight Princess uses the same approach of Elden Ring when using a potion. Gameplay isn't interrupted while Link is drinking it.
 
The challenge in Breath of the Wild is somewhat based on user discretion, so maybe it's very different for the OP, but I found Breath of the Wild's difficulty perfect. It's a pretty challenging game, especially when compared to most triple A games, it just doesn't exactly come close to sitting on the same pedestal as From Soft or challenging indie darlings. And that's fine, it doesn't need to. It's challenging, but it isn't hard necessarily either?

The only part of Breath of the Wild to me that felt overtuned was thunderblight Ganon. Not sure if it was jut me, but he seemed kind of bullshit. I know there's strategies to cheese all the bosses but they shouldn't be required to have a fun fight imo.

Just put more enemy variety in. That way players can challenge tougher enemies if they want to whilst being less equipped.
 
AngryAlchemist said:
Just put more enemy variety in. That way players can challenge tougher enemies if they want to whilst being less equipped.
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Yea the main quest doesn’t have to be as hard if they have optional things that are challenging, I would like those optional things to have very good rewards though, not traditional zelda rewards
 
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BlueManifest said:
I want more creative ways to deal with harder enemies, not just creative for sake of being creative, I want a reason to need it and to use it
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Yep, I would want something like that too. I don't remember myself using some specific weapon because that fits the enemy movement. Usually I spammed the attack button on whatever weapon I had when I see an oportunity and it worked well. With that approach I wouldn't feel at loss if they go back to use sword only. At least they can save dev time.
 
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BlueManifest said:
Yes those but also more variety of items and gear that leads to more character customization

Useful customization not just for looks/skins

I think they can make the game a little deeper for character building
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Well the game isn't an RPG so I'm not sure to what extent it should focus on character building. Customization options I can remember including dyeing and jewelry/armor/masks having resistances or bonuses, the materials for which you can scavenge in the overworld. There's the Thunder Helm as a reward for all the Gerudo sidequests, the Zora headdress which grants a water spin attack, etc. I guess what I'm looking for is a specific example because I've only played the very beginning of Elden Ring.
 
BlueManifest said:
Yes it had armor, you know what I mean though
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Is this going to degenerate into a "What have the Romans ever done for us?" thing?

"Apart from all these things, there's nothing here."

BlueManifest said:
Yes those but also more variety of items and gear that leads to more character customization to get from those extra things

Useful customization not just for looks/skins

I think they can make the game a little deeper for character building
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Zelda isn't an RPG. Just because Elden Ring makes a big thing about doing your own character build (so I hear) doesn't mean a Zelda game needs to.

Also, most armour actually have specific functions and are not purely cosmetic.

AngryAlchemist said:
The only part of Breath of the Wild to me that felt overtuned was thunderblight Ganon. Not sure if it was jut me, but he seemed kind of bullshit. I know there's strategies to cheese all the bosses but they shouldn't be required to have a fun fight imo.
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Thunderblight was a bitch the first time. Subsequent times, the rubber set sorts him out. Strangely, did much better in the illusory realms despite no rubber set.
 
Not on the critical path. These games are meant to be enjoyed and completed by everyone, innit.
But the original had Lynels and they were plenty challenging. Trial of the Sword also. I would expect the sequel to have many more overworld bosses like those, and I would assume a lot of them would be super difficult too.

Of course, any challenge the game gives can be totally nullified by scoffing food at any point. But you can also just not do that I guess.


What I would like, though, is for them to approach the shrines (well, you know, whatever replaces them) with the same philosophy as the overworld bosses: Which is that, since they're not all necessary, it's okay to make some of them super hard. Breath of the Wild really fell short when it came to puzzle difficulty imo.
 
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I found BOTW's difficulty perfect.

There are lots of ways to "cheese" fights through items but you have to get out of your way to make that happen (like cooking OP food or lots of farming for attack/defence upgrades). I honestly wouldn't change a thing going into the sequel when it comes to difficulty.
 
I don’t think it needs to be more challenging, but I do think they need to balance it out better. Things get real whacky real fast in BotW, and it was pretty annoying.
 
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The only note they should take from Elden Ring is that Ganon(dorf) should ride a proportionally tiny horse, just like a certain Starscourge does.

Why? It looks goofy, that's why.
 
I thought BotW’s difficulty was just right. The huge amount of upgrades you can find, cooking and equipment meant that difficulty was something mitigated by preparation and experience, or you could head into stuff you weren’t ready for if you wanted a challenge. I think I expended almost everything in my inventory in my first Lionel fight and it was fantastic. If I’d have had a kitchen sink in my backpack I’d have thrown that at it too :D
 
Pixelknight said:
I thought BotW’s difficulty was just right. The huge amount of upgrades you can find, cooking and equipment meant that difficulty was something mitigated by preparation and experience, or you could head into stuff you weren’t ready for if you wanted a challenge. I think I expended almost everything in my inventory in my first Lionel fight and it was fantastic. If I’d have had a kitchen sink in my backpack I’d have thrown that at it too :D
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What was the reward for the Lionel fight though? I forget
 
BotW had a weird difficulty curve. It's hard at the beginning when you have no gear or resources, but once you get a couple upgrades on an armor set and learn about hearty food you're effectively invincible.

I don't think it necessarily needs to be harder, they just need to adjust the design. Something like:
  • You consume food in real time and have to stop moving to do so (except for potions).
  • Armor reduces damage by a percentage, not a fixed amount.
 
Selarmor said:
  • You consume food in real time and have to stop moving to do so (except for potions).
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I do think it's pretty important to make it so that health items can't be consumed by pausing the game, actually. In general, going into a menu to use health items is counter-intuitive, breaks pacing, and it also kind of breaks the difficulty at times. Not sure I'd make it as extreme as having to stop to eat food (though as a somewhat intermediate Monster Hunter fan, I can't say I'm against it necessarily either), but in general health regen should be real time imo.
 
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BlueManifest said:
Because it gives you more things to find in the world, more things to experiment with your character when you find them too
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I think you are trying to make it into a game it is not. In Souls, combat is the focus. You WANT build customization, and you WANT to be rewarded with permanent upgrades that change the way you play. But BotW is all about scrapping it with what you have on hand. That's part of why weapons break, and probably why the only permanent upgrades you get are in aid of survivability/exploration. If you could customize and build up your character, you would have no incentive to mess around with the game's emergent systems.
 
Lord Azrael said:
I think you are trying to make it into a game it is not. In Souls, combat is the focus. You WANT build customization, and you WANT to be rewarded with permanent upgrades that change the way you play. But BotW is all about scrapping it with what you have on hand. That's part of why weapons break, and probably why the only permanent upgrades you get are in aid of survivability/exploration. If you could customize and build up your character, you would have no incentive to mess around with the game's emergent systems.
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It can have both
 
My memories of BotW combat are clouded with horrible menuing and being really unsatisfied with the world scaling. I know difficulty discourse is all the rage, but that combat system suffered from just plain old poor design. You could change how consumables work which would make it more difficult I guess, but not by much and it's more a consequence of making the combat not slow to a crawl or have damage with consequences. Fixing world scaling to be less, well just kinda stupid, would also probably end up makin the game easier but overall give a better experience. The overall difficulty has little to do with it outside of consumables imo, and the consumable issues aren't really entirely tied to difficulty.
 
Elden Ring difficulty is obviously not suited to Zelda. I like BotW's difficulty up until the point where white enemies appear, which are way too damage spongy to my tastes, and until Link acquires a gazillion hearts.

I alluded to this previously: I'm down for a revamp of the hearts system for BotW2. BotW starts with 3 hearts, which is obviously a starting amount, and balloons to a confusing two very long rows of hearts. Changing that'd require a different progression system entirely of course, and that's the kind of innovation I'd love to see.
 
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