Spoiler The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom Spoiler Thread

[Heron]

Why would they? They made the story purposefully to be able to be played in literally any order and still flow decently alright if you only do main quests.

Because a story that takes place entirely in the past with no input from your character isn't an interesting story at all.

What I was expecting was for something to happen after each dungeon. Doesn't matter which one you do, something new happens. So if you beat Dungeon 1, maybe you get a cutscene of Ganondorf attacking a village and seizing a mcguffin. Doesn't matter which dungeon you beat, you get that same cutscene. It would make things feel like things are actually progressing in the present.

Take Ocarina of Time, there's only really three big story beats there - Ganondorf attempts to capture Zelda, Link is imprisoned and Ganondorf rules/destroys the world, and then Ganondorf does actually capture Sheik/Zelda - but it's enough to feel like you're playing through an actual story. There's no reason that the same structure couldn't be applied here.

Stories told entirely through flashbacks are terrible stories, and there WERE ways around this.

This is what Fuse was for. There are plenty of unique ways you can bust the Master Sword open. Give it elemental damage, give it lifesteal effects, etc

But it still doesn't make the Master Sword any better than a standard weapon. The way fuse works on it is clever, but after all the hype to get it I was surprised how weak and temporary it still felt. This isn't a big deal, I think my frustration at Fuse made me more frustrated about it than I wanted. I would have loved a 60-power master sword that doesn't fuse, just to give me a break from fusing every so often.

Ok this one isn't necessarily directed at you, but it does make me wonder because I've seen similar sentiments before that I just don't understand: are you not just fusing the weapons you get with parts as soon as you get them? How is it a hassle?

I find using Fuse annoying (partially because I find the ability wheel annoying), so I leave all my weapons unfused until I need a new one, which is usually just before starting a new combat encounter, or more typically in the middle of one when a weapon breaks. It just feels like a chore. "Oh look, a fight! Wait a sec, let me just go fiddle with menus for 30 seconds first."

The fact that you need those same items to upgrade equipment means I rarely use the really powerful fuse materials - typically silver bokoblin horns are safe as you get a ton of them.

I feel like my weapons last way longer in this game than they did in BotW. Usually it's a surprise when more than a single weapon breaks in combat with any group of enemies, which is usually replaced three or four times over.

It felt about the same to me. But in BotW all you had to do was pick up weapons and select them, not open menus, choose items, wonder if you needed to keep a certain item, fiddle with the ability wheel and constantly incorrectly select autobuild etc etc. It was just an extra layer that in the end didn't add much to me beyond an hour of fun when I was experimenting.

I agree with almost nothing you said @Heron, which doesn't really matter as my opinion is no more valid than yours, but I particularly don't understand the topography complaint. The topography matters because it's way more fun to follow the actual paths instead of brute force climbing up everything and you miss tons of stuff if you just climb up the tallest thing and paraglider across. I'm surprised Breath of the Wild is your favorite game of all time if you didn't do that in it. Again, not trying to attack you or say you shouldn't have posted that as I agree it can't just be relentless positivity forever, but I really don't see much that would improve the experience if falling off tall things instantly killed Link and you couldn't take shortcuts over climbable stuff.

It's not a major criticism, but I just don't like the feeling that the level design doesn't matter that much. And I guess you're kinda making the same point I am in that it IS more fun to follow the actual paths but given the climbing options I find myself always brute forcing a straight line, every time. That's just how my mind works - I'm not a creative guy. If a game gives me options I'm taking the most efficient one.

And actually, the fact that I never followed roads in BotW and ended up really struggling to find a lot of the good content until I realized that there was a lot of content placed along said roads (and that there were multiple stables, lol, took me 40 hours to find a second one as I hopped from mountain to mountain) - that was actually one of my biggest criticisms of BotW. I'm also someone who really thinks that free-flying in an open world game almost always ruins it - see XCX. (Not that this is the case here.) I like to be on the ground, figuring out how to get from point A to B. I'm really hoping the next Zelda stays largely on the ground.

But just to go back to BotW, climbing still takes time (until Revali's gale) and the topography still matters a fair bit. With the Skyview towers here, looking at the hero's path mode I just glided basically from tower to tower for the first 10 hours of the game blissfully aware of most of what was happening on the ground. Ended up managing to beat the game with only like 40/120 side quests done as a result lol

 

[Awesomegames23]

Anyone know if there is any significance concerning the Recall/Time sage symbol shown during loading screens after the game is beaten (it's next to the other sage symbols)? Maybe it's just recognizing that I best the game or awakened/saved the sage of time/Zelda.

 

[Evil Lucario]

• How can they make a story that progresses linearly in the present while retaining freedom to do whatever you want, whenever? Well, there's no answer here. They didn't even try. This seems by design at this point, and there's really not much you can do with that for a main story.
• How will they improve combat? No answers. Same limited weapon types, same animations, same issues with enemies rag-dolling... just the exact same systems. Not even a new weapon category. This was one of the things that most made the game feel like a retread, and I can't believe more wasn't done here in 6 years of development. You can throw actual items and Fuse adds more options in combat. Throwing items alone improves things like bombs so you don't need to rely on just the one throwing arc, and there's new interactions you can do like throwing Dazzle Fruit on Skalkoblins to instantly kill them so you can save durability on other weapons.
• How can they make the master sword more useful / satisfying given its prominence in the story? No answer. Still rubbish. The Master Sword is ungodly powerful in this game, especially if you attack silver monster parts to it. With a silver horn, it regularly became my strongest weapon at my disposal outside of Zora or Soldier at 1 heart weapons.
• How can they make the world feel like there's more enemy diversity? Okay, you have constructs in the sky islands and horriblins and like-likes in caves. But on the overworld I felt like I fought proportionally more bokoblins and moblins here than I ever did in BotW. The basic mooks really should have been replaced with new enemies - this was one of my biggest pet peeves with content reuse. I feel like the Depths also have enough stuff in there, and Gleeoks also make for a good new overworld boss. Zonai constructs have also been pretty cool to fight and Aerocudas provide more air enemies. Since Zelda consists of more than just combat unlike something like Elden Ring and relies more on puzzles, it can relax a bit more on enemies while making puzzles the way they are.
• How can some of the frustration with the otherwise necessary item degredation system be solved? Well, they came up with Fusion, but it's finicky and while super fun to experiment with at first, by the end of the game it is such a chore to have to fuse a bunch of new weapons before fighting any silver enemy. I was all for weapons breaking in BotW but by the end of TotK I felt like my opinion had shifted. Every single Fused weapon lasts for like ten million years and they actually do delete silver enemies like nothing else. Claymores and spin attacks especially can melt health bars like nothing else and last you for a long time. Or you can just shoot them in the face and kill them quickly that way, especially if you Fuse monster parts to your arrows.
• How can they make horses more useful? No answer. Agree here, they could have brought in the ancient saddle from BotW DLC and that would have been fine. Although, building probably makes horses harder to consider really. Probably difficult to consider with building as a thing. Maybe the ancient saddle would have brought down building as a thing to use.
• How can they make eating food more balanced? No answer. I think this is simply just to make things easier and more accessible, even if it's abusable. The action game brain in me doesn't quite like this, but it's probably to make it an easy mode for people to engage with. However, they have made strides to do things like reducing hearty items and making them much rarer, so some steps have been taken on that front.
• How can they reduce the damage-spongey-ness of combat? Even with fusion, there's no answer. Feels spongy-er than ever. Silver enemies are not worth the trouble. What? Silver horns are insanely powerful and they take no time to kill. Enemies being spongy was never the case, not in Breath of the Wild nor Tears of the Kingdom.
• How can they make the climbing / glider combo less powerful so that topography actually matters? Well, they tackle this with the sky islands, which are linear experiences specifically designed around the climbing/glider - and are brilliant and the best part of the game as a result. That's a big win. And in the depths the scale of the terrain, which is immense, does the job. So they get a strong grade on this one. On the other hand, Skyview towers make much of the overworld incredibly easy to just skip. It feels like the actual lay of the land on the overworld means less than ever. I guess they though "You've already seen it anyway". If you skip the land, you'll also skip a lot of things you can find and obtain so there's trade-offs. You won't find Koroks, or armor pieces, or etc, so it balances out on that front.
• How can they restore the same feeling of exploration as BotW had in the same world? I guess their answer here was the depths, which superficially feels just like travelling from shrine to shrine in BotW while tracking lightroots in the dark distance. It is initially stunning and brilliant, and 100% satisfies that itch for new content, new exploration. It absolutely does. But once you realize it's an inverted heightmap of the overworld and that there is very little unique content down there it starts to almost feel like cheap auto-generated content. I can't imagine ever wanting to activate all those lightroots again. Put it this way - if the depths weren't an auxillary map, but the actual main map, we'd all agree they make for a terrible game, right? So... doesn't that indicate that it's a pretty poor area? Like, that initial burst of shock and awe that you feel when discovering there's a massive, second map... does that really justify the whole area, the tedium of it? Honestly those first few hours down there are so incredible that maybe it does, but by the end it is very very dull indeed. The Depths are essentially this game's version of the Dark World with its own items that feed back into the rest of the game, like being the one place where you can get battery upgrade charges and more. Even if it may not be good enough on its own (which I disagree with, I think it could make for a very compelling idea for a different open world game on its own, to play up a horror aspect perhaps), it's merely another layer to the world that feeds back into the rest of the game, which helps you find more shrines in the surface and provide you battery upgrades so you can explore the sky more easily.
• How can they improve the story presentation? No answers. Some of the custcenes are significantly worse than BotW - with the repeated post-dungeon scenes with the new Champions the worst offenders. It feels like half the cutscenes in this game are a character somehow taking 5 minutes to say "I'll fight with you." Zelda is still unacceptably poorly directed (in English, anyway) to the point where it's impossible to care about what happens to her. Aside from the post dungeon cutscenes which is needlessly repetitive, the rest of the memories and overall story progression I find to be much stronger in Tears of the Kingdom over Breath of the Wild. This is probably the most subjective part for me though.
• How can they make traditional Zelda dungeons when you already have all key abilities? No answer. The dungeons are just like divine beasts in concept but without the cool "control the beast's orientation" gimmick that made those so cool. The dungeons here are weak. The paradigm of what constitutes as a dungeon has changed overall, I feel. It won't scratch that traditional dungeon itch, but outside of the Water Temple which did feel way too simple, I feel like allowing you to actually climb in the Temples instead of limiting it like the Divine Beasts further leverages the strengths of open-ended design that allows even more ways to find a solution to the puzzles at hand. The Spirit Temple area in particular was a highlight in this regard.

Answers in bold.

 

[Mekanos]

Gonna say it's funny seeing people here express disappointment with the game, saying it's too similar, etc. when I know they were also chiding people in other threads for expressing hesitation or skepticism during the marketing (especially with saying the game looked too similar!)

Then it's doubly hilarious as someone who was mildly skeptical about the game during the majority of the marketing cycle, then I played it and not only did I love it way more than BOTW, it became my favorite Zelda and one of my all time favorite games ever

The takeaway? No idea, maybe something about managing expectations

Also this isn't a callout, don't take this post personally if you fall into this camp, it's all in good fun

 

[Mango]

The idea that Nintendo is somehow incapable of creating a linear story is silly. There's nothing stopping them, from simply having major story events happen after certain check points. A open world and a linear story are absolutely not incompatible.

 

[Evil Lucario]

The idea that Nintendo is somehow incapable of creating a linear story is silly. There's nothing stopping them, from simply having major story events happen after certain check points. A open world and a linear story are absolutely not incompatible.

Tears of the Kingdom allows you to sequence break into different plot events early, like getting the Master Sword early, or finding Mineru early, etc. That puts limitations on story things. I'm gonna need an example of an open world game with a "linear story" that also allows you to break sequence of events in half, because they aren't quite coming to mind. For example, Elden Ring has linear progression through the game and you can't break progression as hard as you can in Breath of the Wild, let alone Tears of the Kingdom. You have to go through the capitol, you have to go through the linear endgame gauntlet, you have to kill a couple of bosses before reaching the midway point, you can't skip to the final boss after the tutorial, etc. Oh, and Elden Ring also does the From Software approach relying on show, don't tell with relatively minimal story, mostly told through background lore that's been consistent since Demon's Souls.

Moreover, I think that this also opens up discussions about experiencing a story through different means aside from just a linear sequence of events. Because if you somehow manage to trigger these things early, that could leave a profound memory of the experience for you and be a part of a story you've experienced, even if it's not "traditional storytelling". I think there's merit in considering that as the vibe and experience for story.

 

[LegendHero]

I guess what people want is something like Red Dead Redemption 2, where you can go (almost) anywhere from early on but very little is happening in those places until you are brought there by the story? I don't think linear plot like that has ever been a big asset of the Zelda series. I guess it was cool when Ghirahim would appear wherever Link was because they were following Zelda, but cool enough to be worth restricting the design of the game? Not for me. However, I don't really do the "go to the final boss right away" style of play anyway, so I guess if they made it more of a hybrid system where you couldn't get the Master Sword or fight the final boss until you hit certain points of the story I wouldn't be that bothered. The biggest thing about the open-air design I'd miss if they tried to make Zelda linear again is being able to do most things when you find them, instead of finding something cool but needing to wait dozens of hours until you find some item that arbitrarily lets you hit a switch or a target to open the thing you found.

It's not a major criticism, but I just don't like the feeling that the level design doesn't matter that much. And I guess you're kinda making the same point I am in that it IS more fun to follow the actual paths but given the climbing options I find myself always brute forcing a straight line, every time. That's just how my mind works - I'm not a creative guy. If a game gives me options I'm taking the most efficient one.

And actually, the fact that I never followed roads in BotW and ended up really struggling to find a lot of the good content until I realized that there was a lot of content placed along said roads (and that there were multiple stables, lol, took me 40 hours to find a second one as I hopped from mountain to mountain) - that was actually one of my biggest criticisms of BotW. I'm also someone who really thinks that free-flying in an open world game almost always ruins it - see XCX. (Not that this is the case here.) I like to be on the ground, figuring out how to get from point A to B. I'm really hoping the next Zelda stays largely on the ground.

But just to go back to BotW, climbing still takes time (until Revali's gale) and the topography still matters a fair bit. With the Skyview towers here, looking at the hero's path mode I just glided basically from tower to tower for the first 10 hours of the game blissfully aware of most of what was happening on the ground. Ended up managing to beat the game with only like 40/120 side quests done as a result lol

But climbing isn't really the "most efficient" because again, you're missing tons of stuff and you often need stamina potions and stuff to climb really tall things, the same is true of gliding between Skyview Towers or islands. You don't even need to be creative, the paths are visible in-game and also marked on the map.

 

[Mango]

Tears of the Kingdom allows you to sequence break into different plot events early, like getting the Master Sword early, or finding Mineru early, etc. That puts limitations on story things. I'm gonna need an example of an open world game with a "linear story" that also allows you to break sequence of events in half, because they aren't quite coming to mind. For example, Elden Ring has linear progression through the game and you can't break progression as hard as you can in Breath of the Wild, let alone Tears of the Kingdom. You have to go through the capitol, you have to go through the linear endgame gauntlet, you have to kill a couple of bosses before reaching the midway point, you can't skip to the final boss after the tutorial, etc. Oh, and Elden Ring also does the From Software approach relying on show, don't tell with relatively minimal story, mostly told through background lore that's been consistent since Demon's Souls.

Moreover, I think that this also opens up discussions about experiencing a story through different means aside from just a linear sequence of events. Because if you somehow manage to trigger these things early, that could leave a profound memory of the experience for you and be a part of a story you've experienced, even if it's not "traditional storytelling". I think there's merit in considering that as the vibe and experience for story.

You do dungeon 1 you get cutscene 1, you do dungeon 2 you get cutscene 2. You do x major thing y major thing happens.

You don't do anything nothing happens. Shit like getting the Master Sword or finding Mineru shouldn't be allowed early. The final boss, unless you're actually gonna design a different form to reflect that you haven't done anything, shouldn't be allowed to be tackled right away.

It's not hard, and if a few restrictions have to be put into place, than fine so be it, I'd rather have a good story, than the already old gimmick of "do whatever you want whenever."

 

[Yavga]

Oh, before I forget this is something that kept floating in my mind...

One of the most epic moment in the game might have happened out of sheer luck in my game but while I was scaling a waterfall towards a Zora sky island with the Zora outfit while going up suddenly the giant Light dragon I had never managed to catch up to was RIGHT THERE so had to cancel my plans to scale the waterfall, jumped off onto the Dragon and set a whole chain of events in motion.

Wow... That was a complete rollercoaster for what was supposed to be a casual stroll up a waterfall!

The only thing I wonder is whether the timing of the dragon being right there that moment I was going up the waterfall might have been scripted or that it was by plain accident.

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

Oh, before I forget this is something that kept floating in my mind...

One of the most epic moment in the game might have happened out of sheer luck in my game but while I was scaling a waterfall towards a Zora sky island with the Zora outfit while going up suddenly the giant Light dragon I had never managed to catch up to was RIGHT THERE so had to cancel my plans to scale the waterfall, jumped off onto the Dragon and set a whole chain of events in motion.

Wow... That was a complete rollercoaster for what was supposed to be a casual stroll up a waterfall!

The only thing I wonder is whether the timing of the dragon being right there that moment I was going up the waterfall might have been scripted or that it was by plain accident.

Afaik unlike BotW all the dragons have a set schedule, the Light Dragon for example takes 2h to circle Hyrule, regardless of whether you skip time by sleeping or teleport. Whether they adjust this on the fly, however, I do not know.

 

[xghost777]

I've had a few days to sit with my thoughts for Tears of the Kingdom. I played for 110+ hours and completed every shrine and light root as well as all of the side quest content I want. There's a few things I forgot to get back to, like I wanted to finish exploring the tunnel network connected to the emergency shelter and defeat at least one Frox (I did take a silly selfie with one though lol), and while I may sneak those in soon I otherwise did everything I wanted to do. Breath of the Wild is one of my favorite games ever made and was easily my Game of the Year in 2017. Sadly while I still had an excellent deal of fun with Tears of the Kingdom and there's stuff I'm really excited to talk about, I certainly didn't enjoy this game as much overall even if it will probably be one of my favorite games this year. After keeping it all in for weeks (I avoided the ST and Spoiler Threads entirely until I beat it) I'm excited to share my big breakdown of my thoughts here so let's do it!

Map Reuse - Walking in this was my biggest concern and I'm sad to find this was an example of map reuse that didn't quite gel with me. I have a really good memory for locations in real life and in video games, so the Breath of the Wild surface map even though I played it six years ago now is burned into my brain. I ended up focusing more on objectives than just existing and enjoying the world (there was a lot of hang glide, barge in, do the thing, and teleport out going on). Though when I did slow down in some of the more grassy areas especially, I was reminded why this world means so much to me. The slightly improved graphics and more consistent performance really make the world all the more spectacular.

Building Stuff - Another concern I had walking in was the new focus on building. I'm happy to say I did largely enjoy this even if I'd rather have more actions my character can do directly. The controls are a little finicky, but still easy and powerful to use. I think my only real complaint is that it felt like I was building less and building less interesting things as the game went on, but overall I hope this returns in some fashion in future games. Also Sign Guy <3

Caves And Wells - Love these! While a lot of them just look like caves, the way they often twist and turn and are filled with enemies and obstacles like rivers made it so you never knew what exactly to expect here. The variations of themes, like fire, ice, sand, and dungeons give them some good variety too. This is my favorite new area category by far.

Sky Islands - wow those Great Sky Islands sure raised the bar high in a way that goes largely unfulfilled. 80% of them feel of lesser consequence once you notice the pattern of climb some narrow walkways to get to the plus shaped island that has a shrine and a gacha machine on them. That said, one of my favorite things in the game was getting to the bigger islands by building vehicles. There's some real cool stuff here, the low gravity death star island chain where you use rockets to ascend ever higher, the labyrinths that are amazing and house some of the best shrines in the game (that Halo 3 tribute shrine!!), and the thundercloud island that I entered earlier than intended. I had no idea there was story attached to the thundercloud island so I dropped in from above and stumbled my way around until I hit the shrine and big door. Didn't expect at all to get a new main quest there. What a cool thing!

Depths - Darn these make me sad. I was hoping for underground content in the lead up to this game and while caves are even better than I imagined the world of the Depths didn't quite do it for me. I was shocked to find the Depths extend across the map and I noticed early on how it mirrored the surface world in regards to shrines, mines, and rivers that become mountains down here. I wanted something more vibrant and handcrafted than what we got here. Also my least favorite part of my journey was just stumbling around and climbing on things in the dark 120 times over. There was no real threat here for this task so it just felt like ticking boxes off a checklist eventually even if individual moments of using a bright bloom seed sparked joy. There was barely anything of note to find down there either. The giant Shadow of the Colossus guy was rad, I did dig giving the other guy his eyeballs back, fighting Master Kohga was fun, but yeah this really wore me down. I did find the Spirit Temple stuff earlier than intended and while it didn't let me in, that was still cool. But yeah the huge amount of new content being so lifeless really was a big let down. Last thing, I did dupe some of the rocks I needed for the colossal battery grind, no regrets.

Temples - Yo these were pretty cool. The approach to the Sky and Water temples were both good fun. Traveling up to the boats and using Tulin's ability to do so was perhaps my favorite movement stuff in the game. Sidon is my favorite of the modern sages so getting to do Mario Sunshine stuff with him, tackling the fish island and waterworks, and of course seeing that amazing statue in Zora's Domain was all excellent. As for the temples themselves The Fire, Water, and Lightning Temples were definitely my favorite. Manipulating mine cart rides is always a good time and building things out of lava blocks just feels good. The Water Temple I mainly dug the aesthetics of rather than the temple itself, but I had a good time with it especially if I consider the ascent part of it (I also wildly overthought one of the puzzles which was funny). The Lightning Temple starting with some Indiana Jones stuff was cool and exploring the multi-floor heart of the temple was good. None of the bosses were hard, but I had a good time with all of them. I mentioned it in a previous post here, but building the robot for the Spirit Temple was great fun, but actually riding it was baffling because if that was supposed to be a power trip it was often anything but. Ah well, cool a fifth temple existed since despite my love for the temples here after the big letdown of the Divine Beasts it was a little sad they were all in the same spots as the last game. I have to mention too getting the phantoms and their abilities are an excellent reward for completing the dungeons. Tulin's is essential and both Yunobo's and Riju's are very useful.

Shrines - There were too many Rauru's Blessing shrines (though I loved the troll one lol), but there were a lot of awesome shrines here still. I already mentioned my favorite, Courage to Jump, which was absolutely a huge tribute to the Halo 3 Warthog Escape and it was largely because it was so unexpectedly out of left field. Speaking of game references, I also dug Shining In The Darkness which was playing off the old school dungeon crawler of the same name. The trick too for solving it, by ascending through the ceiling was good fun. For more standard shrines, I dug my first one involving building bridges from lava chunks, the ones involving the foldable bridges, another where you had to make rail cars, another a baseball machine, and one more where you made a claw scooper thing. Lot of fun creativity here. My absolute favorite decision with shrines was making all of the combat shrines mini Eventide Islands by restricting your equipment. Just excellent stuff here that offered some of the best combat in the game. Really makes me wonder if in the next open air Zelda game they should ditch weapon damage and enemy scaling and focus more on the fun interactions instead.

Combat And Enemies - For as much as Fuse changes stuff by making every weapon viable and always letting you have the right tool for the right situation, combat largely feels similar here. I'm mostly cool with that. I liked it in BOTW, I like it here (though I miss remote bombs terribly). There aren't too many new enemies, but I dug the Horriblins, the Like Likes, the Ghibdos, and the robots. I do like the new out of dungeon bosses including the big robots you can pull apart with Ultrahand and the Gleeoks and King Gleeoks awesome. Probably my favorite combat achievement was killing a King Gleeok especially since flying to one of their islands used up all of my batteries.

Some System Stuff - Just wild to me how this game works where so many systems you can miss for hours if you can't find them. Like if you miss Hestu off the bat (I did) you can be without inventory expansion for a while. Same deal for the potential on missing out on the Great Fairies for a very long time, missing out on Autobuild, the Master Sword, and the phantom abilities (Tulin is my best bud in this game). It makes finding all of this stuff mean a lot, though I could have done with more straightforward availability for Hestu and Armor Upgrading. (Though the third Great Fairy where you build the off road Jeep is amazing lol. YA YAAA!!)

Lurelin Village and Hateno - Brief shoutout to these two villages for having some great side quests. Really enjoyed driving off the pirates (which I did after exploring Eventide which left me very confused for a bit how to finish that lol) and completing Hateno's mayoral election. Just like the first game, I forgot about Tarrey Town...whoops.

Story - This was the biggest letdown of the whole game. So I stumbled onto Impa about 20 hours in I guess and learned how to interact with the geoglyphs. My second Geoglyph afterwards happened to be the final one where I learned the horrible truth early on. This series has mistreated Zelda a lot in the past, but Tears of the Kingdom is by far the absolute worst. Her role in the game is to be sent back to the past against her will just so, as first pitched, she can lose her mind and suffer for eternity all so Link's sword can be revived. What absolutely insulting nonsense. I've been disappointed by elements in a Zelda game before, but I've never been actually mad about a story element before. At the end they say it was like taking a nap and we get the happy ending, but the damage was done. Other stuff I want to talk about, the memory system having all the cool stuff and characters in the past again is a minor letdown. I enjoyed Rauru, Mineru, and Ganondorf more than a lot of the present day characters. Ganondorf did need more screen time, but he was effective with what he had. I did enjoy the return to Hyrule Castle portion of the story, though in general I wish there was more after the regional phenomenon stuff which felt like a retread.

The End Of The Game - I stumbled upon Ganondorf's hiding place early since I just wanted to see the rest of the murals early on. I was delighted how cool the final enemy gauntlet was and how treacherous it was with all of the gloom. Excellent stuff here even though I did run past a few big guys like the Lynel. The minion battle feels a little redundant at first, but I dug when the Sages came to help as that was cool. The Ganondorf fight was excellent stuff. I was way more powerful than him since I wanted to end the game with the fight (not to mention it is incredibly easy to stock up on full health potions), but still what a great final battle and I adored when his health bar doubled in the most amusing way possible. The extra final battle where he turned into a dragon was was very cool. Very Shadow of the Colossus like and I can't believe how epic the final explosion was lol.

Conclusion - There were large chunks of this game I thoroughly enjoyed, other parts felt too much of a retread (reused surface map dynamics), other parts were annoying and repetitive (Big portions of the Depths could be exceptionally draining), and one element of the game made me mad (The treatment of Zelda). While I thoroughly enjoyed all of my first 65+ hour playthrough of BOTW and its DLC, I had a much more uneven experience here. This game was significantly bigger than BOTW as it took 110+ hours to roll credits, but not all of it was worthwhile. Despite some disappointment, I hope this enormous post here does convey though I think a ton of this game is really cool and I will value even some of its uneven qualities because it was such an interesting experience. Even after this big post I still feel like I have tons more to talk about with this game which is so cool. I'm really looking forward to reading everyone's thoughts on this game in the weeks and years to come and I'm really excited by the potential of DLC and the next big and hopefully fully original Zelda game.

 

[Lugia667]

some people just seem to not want this kind of Zelda at all

 

[Twilight]

My problem with TotK story structure is that is not as well designed as BotW in terms of non linearity.

Getting the exact same cutscene after finishing the region temples, memories being clearly designed in a sequence of events that can ruin scenes if seen in a different order, there are quests that don't activate without clearing story beats like with Hyrule Castle, the fact some memories that tell you important information can't be discussed with other characters at all? like we know Zelda is a dragon, that Ganondorf can make an illusion of her Link should probably say something idk, I couldn't quite suspend my disbelief around that for a game that acknowledges some sequence breaking in dialogue pieces.

Regardless of the quality of the story in BotW, it was something structured entirely around the idea of freedom and took into account how the player has a huge variety of ways they would experience the order of memories, getting to the divine beasts, setting up the goal to defeat Ganon from the start, etc. TotK feels like a story that wanted to be told in a more linear fashion but also they wanted to replicate BotW, and I don't think this middle ground worked out well.

 

[Horror Kid]

I was very much expecting that something happens to each region after the temple but instead it just got back to BotW-state (minus Lava in Eldin region).

For example, they could have had a cutscene where Ganondorf does some wizardry after you beat the boss and some (stronger) monsters claim new territory in the region. Afterwards these side missions where you fight alongside Hylians become available (maybe more than 2 and in more than 3 areas...).
Personally I wished winning these fights were permanent.
If you clear
the bigger enemy camp
the gate in Fort Hateno
the bridge of Hylia
the pirate ship
and so on, people can travel/pass areas safely again.
Do some escort-missions like the ones with the stable trotters, which are much much harder if you didn't clear the area of monsters beforehand.
The towing harness is not much used at all.

You could do a lot of stuff like this to make the world feel more alive and your actions in the present more meaningful.

I get that the blood moon is necessary to reset the memory and so that people can farm stuff and not run out of monsters.
Personally, I think they should limit the respawning to random outposts or mainly to the depths.
Let me clear the surface of all mini-bosses and bigger camps. There are enough anyway.

 

[Irene]

I was fine with the map reuse. I think it had more changes than I thought it would have, my expectations were admittedly pretty low there. We all knew about the regional phenomena, of course, but I don't think I expected the Lurelin pirate ship, the plateau being run over by the Yiga, Hateno having a fashion show or Tarrey Town being fully developed and expanded upon. These were all awesome additions in my opinion, especially Tarrey Town was an enormous delight to see. Only Faron seems to be the larger region that wasn't touched upon in some way.

 

[Evil Lucario]

You do dungeon 1 you get cutscene 1, you do dungeon 2 you get cutscene 2. You do x major thing y major thing happens.

You don't do anything nothing happens. Shit like getting the Master Sword or finding Mineru shouldn't be allowed early. The final boss, unless you're actually gonna design a different form to reflect that you haven't done anything, shouldn't be allowed to be tackled right away.

It's not hard, and if a few restrictions have to be put into place, than fine so be it, I'd rather have a good story, than the already old gimmick of "do whatever you want whenever."

Then the appeal of Breath of the Wild/Tears of the Kingdom is simply not for you and that's fine, but also not really the fault of the game. What you want is fundamentally opposed to what they deliver on a game design level. There are very few (if any) open world games that allow you to do main story events out of order with almost complete non-linearity. It's not without its faults and even Tears of the Kingdom stumbles when it shouldn't, namely the post dungeon cutscenes where they just repeat information, instead of giving completely new things per dungeon. But the core appeal of these Zelda games has been near-complete freedom with all the systems revolving around that like weapon durability, cooking, stamina, etc, and that also applies to story progression.

 

[fourfourfun]

Only Faron seems to be the larger region that wasn't touched upon in some way.

There are the weird luminous rock eating creatures bit from what I know. Plus it has a huge sky island presence.

Also it contains the biggest troll this game has to offer, lets just establish the facts we had as we went into this game:

• BOTW establishes Hearty Durian as a shortcut to yellow hearts.
• Faron is home to an area with absolutely loads of them.

So, if people have ever heard my tales of BOTW, you would have heard my wife had a nice set route through the game for: a) ore, b) hearts. So what does she do? Feeling overwhelmed by the new world, she heads for certainty, she heads for hearts.

Up she pops in Faron to the little area with Durian. Except there are none. How crushing. Then, out the corner of the picture we see what looks like a hand in the distance. "What on earth is that? Can you get near it?" Before we even formulate a plan, the hand (or hands as we now see) plainly have scoped us out and begin coming closer. "What". Then the sky turns red and everything gets bit manic, we are grabbed, thrown about, and eventually hide up a tree.

How very knowing. Understanding one of the biggest heart farming areas of BOTW and simply placing the exact opposite in its location.

She's doing great now though. LOVES muddlebuds and is absolutely loaded with items and things again, as per usual. Nobody is a collector quite like she is.

Although I surprised her when I dropped off at a statue to offer up some Sages Will. "What the fuck? What is that? Where have you got that? What is that? When is this happening?"

 

[fourfourfun]

Shit like getting the Master Sword or finding Mineru shouldn't be allowed early.

Technically, if you're finding this stuff early, then all power to you, you're doing well. For the former, you will have done at least 20 shrines (24 if you haven't done a regional main mission and opened up the swapping statue), you will have also survived a run in with the hands/phantom Ganon as well as dealt with some navigational stuff around the Lost Forest. This is, unless, you happen upon the location of the sword by accident, but that is a lot of coincidence that allows that scenario.

The latter. I actually did early. But purely because I am a determined and curious fellow. I went to Dragonhead and dealt with the complete lack of visibility through sheer will and experimentation - not everybody will be able to do that so will have to more than likely encounter that entire section through the normal main story. Plus, after Dragonhead, you still have a bunch of challenging Depths stuff to do, so the few on hearts and armour will have a bit of a tough time.

One main thing here is that you can absolutely use knowledge this in future playthroughs, and have an entirely different powerplay experience. Which was one of the really nice things about BOTW. With hindsight, you can nail the fairies, get some choice armour, hit up some very specific shrines to get some bits and pieces, and then do enough to quickly pick up the master sword - the location of which and associated trickery you are now wise to... way before you even decide to engage with the main missions.

This is what the game is like really. First play is discovery, second play is mastery.

 

[Horror Kid]

Then the appeal of Breath of the Wild/Tears of the Kingdom is simply not for you and that's fine, but also not really the fault of the game. What you want is fundamentally opposed to what they deliver on a game design level. There are very few (if any) open world games that allow you to do main story events out of order with almost complete non-linearity. It's not without its faults and even Tears of the Kingdom stumbles when it shouldn't, namely the post dungeon cutscenes where they just repeat information, instead of giving completely new things per dungeon. But the core appeal of these Zelda games has been near-complete freedom with all the systems revolving around that like weapon durability, cooking, stamina, etc, and that also applies to story progression.

I really don't think that the all-defining feature and appeal of BotW/TotK is that you can do anything in any order.
Might be a big part for some and for sure part of the development-philosophy, but others just love the world building, the exploring in general, maybe the combat, the freedom in traversal (climb anywhere, now fly everywhere) and so on.

Sentences like the one I bolded always sound a little condescending to me, I don't know.
I see absolutely no reason why an open world with some content locked behind certain milestones shouldn't work.
I would love that and BotW is my favorite game of all time.
They do it in the tutorial plateau areas anyway. Or locking some camera upgrades behind certain missions. Or accessing the labyrinths.

Imo it would be very easy to implement an area which has some requirements to meet to get access to it - without destroying the feeling of freedom in general.
Be it a hard-lock through a specific key for a temple-door (they also could have locked the fifth temple behind puzzles where you need each sage ability once).

Or some soft-locking through upgrades that you need rare materials for (think subnautica where you have to progressively upgrade your vehicle to dive deeper. You can do that pretty fast, if you know where to look - but most first time players will need some time).
Or like in Outer wilds where knowledge is key. If you know how the world works, you can finish the game in half an hour.
Without a guide no one will achieve that in their first playthrough though.

With some creativity I can see stuff like this making a world and its mysteries in Zelda even more interesting to explore than having everything available from the getgo.

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

Going blindly into the storm covering the Dragonhead Isles and stumbling upon the Mineru questline early was easily one of my favourite experiences in any game ever. Unlike the regional phenomena it actually felt like one of the moments that fully embraced the game's open air philosophy. If anything, they need to double down on stuff like this. The series going back to arbitrary restrictions in the service of story over exploration and discovery sounds like a pretty bad tradeoff to me.

 

[Lugia667]

Or like in Outer wilds where knowledge is key. If you know how the world works, you can finish the game in half an hour.
Without a guide no one will achieve that in their first playthrough though.

isn't this exactly what the game does?

 

[Evil Lucario]

I really don't think that the all-defining feature and appeal of BotW/TotK is that you can do anything in any order.
Might be a big part for some and for sure part of the development-philosophy, but others just love the world building, the exploring in general, maybe the combat, the freedom in traversal (climb anywhere, now fly everywhere) and so on.

Sentences like the one I bolded always sound a little condescending to me, I don't know.
I see absolutely no reason why an open world with some content locked behind certain milestones shouldn't work.
I would love that and BotW is my favorite game of all time.
They do it in the tutorial plateau areas anyway. Or locking some camera upgrades behind certain missions. Or accessing the labyrinths.

Imo it would be very easy to implement an area which has some requirements to meet to get access to it - without destroying the feeling of freedom in general.
Be it a hard-lock through a specific key for a temple-door (they also could have locked the fifth temple behind puzzles where you need each sage ability once).

Or some soft-locking through upgrades that you need rare materials for (think subnautica where you have to progressively upgrade your vehicle to dive deeper. You can do that pretty fast, if you know where to look - but most first time players will need some time).
Or like in Outer wilds where knowledge is key. If you know how the world works, you can finish the game in half an hour.
Without a guide no one will achieve that in their first playthrough though.

With some creativity I can see stuff like this making a world and its mysteries in Zelda even more interesting to explore than having everything available from the getgo.

Areas that require prerequisite content does already exist in Tears of the Kingdom, like how you need the Yiga Clan outfit to get in the hideout this time, which unlocks Earthwake and the Thunder Helm. So it's already in the game like that and maybe there's more or they could have done more, but the main story events are divorced from that and also a bit semi-gated by knowledge as well, namely with the Master Sword. (Side note, The Outer Wilds is something I should probably get to with that in mind, that sounds deeply fascinating)

But ultimately speaking, this approach is a trade-off and has different appeal from more lock-and-key linear design.

 

[Horror Kid]

Areas that require prerequisite content does already exist in Tears of the Kingdom, like how you need the Yiga Clan outfit to get in the hideout this time, which unlocks Earthwake and the Thunder Helm. So it's already in the game like that and maybe there's more or they could have done more, but the main story events are divorced from that and also a bit semi-gated by knowledge as well, namely with the Master Sword. (Side note, The Outer Wilds is something I should probably get to with that in mind, that sounds deeply fascinating)

But ultimately speaking, this approach is a trade-off and has different appeal from more lock-and-key linear design.

You are right, it is already in the game. I tried to give some examples as well. I think that shows it can work even to a greater degree.
They have to try.

Master sword is a good example for this "knowledge" approach.
I like that a lot, but it seems many stumbled across this without knowing about it. I think it is fine in this case, but it could be cool for other semi-locked content (even a second set of temples) if it was even more obscure and more unlikely to find/access by accident - but still possible.
I don't know if it was a satisfying outcome for those that found the sword randomly (I received it during the mission that pointed me to it).


P.S: I highly recommend Outer Wilds, if that sounds interesting to you.
Hopefully you like the artstyle and are not too much bothered by the controls.
Imo the greatest achievement in world/world-logic design in video games ever.

 

[xghost777]

I was fine with the map reuse. I think it had more changes than I thought it would have, my expectations were admittedly pretty low there. We all knew about the regional phenomena, of course, but I don't think I expected the Lurelin pirate ship, the plateau being run over by the Yiga, Hateno having a fashion show or Tarrey Town being fully developed and expanded upon. These were all awesome additions in my opinion, especially Tarrey Town was an enormous delight to see. Only Faron seems to be the larger region that wasn't touched upon in some way.

The Great Plateau (and the Northeastern lab) having a Yiga base was one of the subtle things I really dug. The Gerudo town having the shelter was also really well done, it felt like a new place to explore and there were some cool quests there (really dug the tablet picture quest). Only one that didn’t really work out for me was the Rito Village being covered in snow though it felt like an Ocarina of Time throwback at least. Classic Ganondorf move lol.

I wish we saw more dramatic terrain changes in the world, the most striking to me was definitely the road to Zora’s Domain which was bittersweet since that was my favorite area in Breath of the Wild.

 

[balgajo]

When comparing MM and TOTK, I would argue that an entire building and crafting system with literally almost any object is more impressive and paradigm shifting than what were fundamentally a bunch of timed event flags.

If you mean technically I agree. Personally what Majora's Mask did about using gameplay to create a narrative was more impressive.

Some System Stuff - Just wild to me how this game works where so many systems you can miss for hours if you can't find them. Like if you miss Hestu off the bat (I did) you can be without inventory expansion for a while. Same deal for the potential on missing out on the Great Fairies for a very long time, missing out on Autobuild, the Master Sword, and the phantom abilities (Tulin is my best bud in this game). It makes finding all of this stuff mean a lot, though I could have done with more straightforward availability for Hestu and Armor Upgrading. (Though the third Great Fairy where you build the off road Jeep is amazing lol. YA YAAA!!)

That's me. Didn't know you could find Hestu before Lost Woods. Searched for him in that bridge of Kakariko and didn't found. Then I went to Korok Forest and thought I'd need to kill Phantom Ganon to see him. Anyway, when I got back to kill Phantom Ganon I was after midgame and had master sword.

I have a history of mismatch with Hestu. In BOTW I also found him around midgame as my first Kakariko Journey was through wetlands instead of Dual Peak stable. Had no idea what I was supposed to do with the Korok seeds. Thought that the inventory size was fixed.

 

[xghost777]

If you mean technically I agree. Personally what Majora's Mask did about using gameplay to create a narrative was more impressive.


That's me. Didn't know you could find Hestu before Lost Woods. Searched for him in that bridge of Kakariko and didn't found. Then I went to Korok Forest and thought I'd need to kill Phantom Ganon to see him. Anyway, when I got back to kill Phantom Ganon I was after midgame and had master sword.

I have a history of mismatch with Hestu. In BOTW I also found him around midgame as my first Kakariko Journey was through wetlands instead of Dual Peak stable. Had no idea what I was supposed to do with the Korok seeds. Thought that the inventory size was fixed.

Yeah I went to the Lost Woods first and came up empty handed and was just like where could he possibly be? Thankfully he shows up in Lookout Landing after the first dungeon which was 20+ hours into my adventure.

Tangentially related one time I was shocked when I went to Lookout Landing and Hestu got blasted by lightning which I didn’t think was possible. He lived.

 

[balgajo]

Going blindly into the storm covering the Dragonhead Isles and stumbling upon the Mineru questline early was easily one of my favourite experiences in any game ever. Unlike the regional phenomena it actually felt like one of the moments that fully embraced the game's open air philosophy. If anything, they need to double down on stuff like this. The series going back to arbitrary restrictions in the service of story over exploration and discovery sounds like a pretty bad tradeoff to me.

Agreed. I love the idea of stumbling upon dungeons without needing to do errands to get to them. I did this quest the same way(though approaching from underground) and it's probably my favorite memory of the game. My friend biggest frustration with this game was precisely reaching the ship without Tulin. He even went to required chambers but couldn't interact with the mechanism. Then the game force him to go Rito Village and do the same path again but this time together with Tulin.

Yeah I went to the Lost Woods first and came up empty handed and was just like where could he possibly be? Thankfully he shows up in Lookout Landing after the first dungeon which was 20+ hours into my adventure.

Tangentially related one time I was shocked when I went to Lookout Landing and Hestu got blasted by lightning which I didn’t think was possible. He lived.

Lol. Such a shocking view.
For some reason I never saw him on Lookout. I probably didn't visit the place between ultrahand quest and the end when Purah tells me to go to the castle.

 

[Awesomegames23]

I finished the game last night. First off, I think I enjoyed BotW a bit more than TotK. I've read that some people didn't "get" TotK, at least at the beginning, and I think I can be included in this group.

At the end of the Great Plateau in BotW, the king tells you the initial backstory, and you set off on your adventure knowing your past and the end goal. I didn't get this feeling after the Great Sky Island tutorial in TotK, Rauru didn't give much information about the past. Once I got to Lookout Landing, I felt that the game was trying to pull me towards Kakariko Village and Rito Village, but I was told Impa wasn't too far from Lookout Landing, and she was on the way to Rito Village, so I didn't see why I had to go to Kakariko at the beginning if Impa wasn't there, after all she gave me more backstory in BotW (the king specifically directs you to Impa at Kakariko to learn more in BotW) so I figured she should be the one to go to in TotK. It turned out that I should've went to Kakariko Village before going to Impa, or at least doubled back to Kakariko after Impa, but then after I went to Impa and got the first tear, the game told me to go to the Forgotten Temple, which I did to see the map of ancient Hyrule.

Of course, then I felt like I should go to the temple geoglyph (the 4th memory/2nd dragon tear) since it was close by, which I did, and luckily that was the next memory in the sequence. Then I went to Rito Village to solve their blizzard/phenomenon without really understanding the game yet. So, after the Rito phenomenon I decided I had to go to Kakariko since I felt like I was missing information, lo and behold I should've went to Kakariko first. Honestly, even then it was tough to understand what was going on, I recognized each phenomenon would yield a new sage (although that was pretty apparent after anyone's first phenomenon), but what about Ganondorf? Well, I decided to go back to Rito and get that memory near the Hebra mountains, the one depicting a strange looking Ganondorf. Well, this was the memory of Ganondorf becoming the demon king. I thought that since this memory was not far from the 4th dragon tear/2nd memory, this one was the next in the sequence. I was very wrong. I skipped like 4 or 5 memories, oops. I recognized that Impa tells you where to go next (in sequence) after this, but I wish the game was more direct about that.

So it wasn't until like 30 hours into the game where I started piecing the game together. I think this could've been solved if Rauru gave some backstory like the king did in BotW.

 

[balgajo]

Do you feel this game is a safe sequel? Some random thoughts after I saw that this game metascore settled down with the same 95 score as Twilight Princess.

I have mixed feelings because what I experienced was a safe sequel, like TP for example(though over a structure that I don't like as much as TP). But my main ultrahand usecases where some flying devices to go from point A to B. So ultrahand wise it felt like BOTW with planes, not something that changed the game.

But when I consider the possibilities of ultrahand and what people are doing out there it's difficult to label it like this. I see people defeating an entire enemy camp creating the devices and it feels like they are having a completely different experience than mine. XD

 

[neon]

Do you feel this game is a safe sequel? Some random thoughts after I saw that this game metascore settled down with the same 95 score as Twilight Princess.

I have mixed feelings because what I experienced was a safe sequel, like TP for example(though over a structure that I don't like as much as TP). But my main ultrahand usecases where some flying devices to go from point A to B. So ultrahand wise it felt like BOTW with planes, not something that changed the game.

But when I consider the possibilities of ultrahand and what people are doing out there it's difficult to label it like this. I see people defeating an entire enemy camp creating the devices and it feels like they are having a completely different experience than mine. XD

somewhere in between imo
although thats not to say super ambitious vs safe indicates goodness

 

[Phendrift]

Do you feel this game is a safe sequel? Some random thoughts after I saw that this game metascore settled down with the same 95 score as Twilight Princess.

I have mixed feelings because what I experienced was a safe sequel, like TP for example(though over a structure that I don't like as much as TP). But my main ultrahand usecases where some flying devices to go from point A to B. So ultrahand wise it felt like BOTW with planes, not something that changed the game.

But when I consider the possibilities of ultrahand and what people are doing out there it's difficult to label it like this. I see people defeating an entire enemy camp creating the devices and it feels like they are having a completely different experience than mine. XD

It’s kinda both pretty safe and super ambitious.

Like it’s safe in that it builds off of and keeps a ton of what BotW did, but even that makes it risky at the same time (using the same world was always gonna be divisive), on top of the new mechanics being batshit crazy ambitious

 

[Lugia667]

"Settled at just a 95"

I mean it's kinda crazy how we say that

 

[Phendrift]

Maybe an unpopular story opinion but, outside of its connection to Fi, the master sword is not that interesting and I wouldn’t mind if the series starts to move away from it as a plot device.

It’s not that interesting gameplay-wise either as the series has moved to Link being able to have so many different types of weapons and it kinda just awkwardly fits in now.

It’s one of those things I don’t mind and it is a series staple so I won’t be upset or anything if it continues to appear, but I wouldn’t really feel it’s loss either

This feels weirdly timed given how fucking awesome the way you acquire it in TOTK is and how great of a swerve it was from acquiring it in the lost woods yet again, but I’m mainly speaking about how in the series in general it’s just never been terribly interesting to me. It’s never been a really cool gameplay upgrade, but that’s doubly more apparent in BotW and TOTK with their weapon variety

 

[LegendHero]

Maybe an unpopular story opinion but, outside of its connection to Fi, the master sword is not that interesting and I wouldn’t mind if the series starts to move away from it as a plot device.

It’s not that interesting gameplay-wise either as the series has moved to Link being able to have so many different types of weapons and it kinda just awkwardly fits in now.

It’s one of those things I don’t mind and it is a series staple so I won’t be upset or anything if it continues to appear, but I wouldn’t really feel it’s loss either

I like it because it embodies the legacy of the Hero and the idea of a weapon that is connected to the wielder in a profound way like that works well in a fantasy story.

 

[Mango]

Maybe an unpopular story opinion but, outside of its connection to Fi, the master sword is not that interesting and I wouldn’t mind if the series starts to move away from it as a plot device.

It’s not that interesting gameplay-wise either as the series has moved to Link being able to have so many different types of weapons and it kinda just awkwardly fits in now.

It’s one of those things I don’t mind and it is a series staple so I won’t be upset or anything if it continues to appear, but I wouldn’t really feel it’s loss either

This feels weirdly timed given how fucking awesome the way you acquire it in TOTK is and how great of a swerve it was from acquiring it in the lost woods yet again, but I’m mainly speaking about how in the series in general it’s just never been terribly interesting to me. It’s never been a really cool gameplay upgrade, but that’s doubly more apparent in BotW and TOTK with their weapon variety

It feels kinda lame in BOTW and TotK. It's supposed to be the most powerful sword ever, that smites evil, but it does 30 damage and breaks in like 15 swings, even in ToTK where it's been bathed in and continually accumulating holy power for like anywhere from 11,000 to 20,000 years.

I miss when it was a huge grand deal, in games like OOT, WW, and TP.

 

[neon]

Maybe an unpopular story opinion but, outside of its connection to Fi, the master sword is not that interesting and I wouldn’t mind if the series starts to move away from it as a plot device.

It’s not that interesting gameplay-wise either as the series has moved to Link being able to have so many different types of weapons and it kinda just awkwardly fits in now.

It’s one of those things I don’t mind and it is a series staple so I won’t be upset or anything if it continues to appear, but I wouldn’t really feel it’s loss either

This feels weirdly timed given how fucking awesome the way you acquire it in TOTK is and how great of a swerve it was from acquiring it in the lost woods yet again, but I’m mainly speaking about how in the series in general it’s just never been terribly interesting to me. It’s never been a really cool gameplay upgrade, but that’s doubly more apparent in BotW and TOTK with their weapon variety

honestly im the exact opposite lol
would prefer they moved away from having a link and zelda compared to no ms

can't give any reasoning besides 'I like the sword' though

 

[neon]

It feels kinda lame in BOTW and TotK. It's supposed to be the most powerful sword ever, that smites evil, but it does 30 damage and breaks in like 15 swings, even in ToTK where it's been bathed in and continually accumulating holy power for like anywhere from 11,000 to 20,000 years.

I miss when it was a huge grand deal, in games like OOT, WW, and TP.

Agree with the 15 swing thing in the context of ToTKs dragon light nonsense specifically (ofc this is gameplay reasons and thus dubiously canon) but has the mastersword ever been the most powerful sword?

Even in OOT the biggorons sword is technically more powerful, I assumed that the master swords real notability in terms of power came from its ability to drive back evil specifically.

 

[Lugia667]

you people are never going to get over weapon durability huh?

 

[neon]

you people are never going to get over weapon durability huh?

personally I like weapon durability but really?
people have their own likes and dislikes, rather rude to ask someone to just 'get over it'

 

[Mango]

Agree with the 15 swing thing in the context of ToTKs dragon light nonsense specifically (ofc this is gameplay reasons and thus dubiously canon) but has the mastersword ever been the most powerful sword?

Even in OOT the biggorons sword is technically more powerful, I assumed that the master swords real notability in terms of power came from its ability to drive back evil specifically.

It's a sword wielded by the Zelda universe equivalent of Jesus/Amaterasu to fight back against basically Satan. Which then goes on to be forged by the first Hero, by being bathed in the remaining flames of the three creation deities, And then blessed by Jesus/Amaterasu reincarnated, specifically to give it the ability to purge evil, in a series where all enemies are basically demons. From an in-universe perspective, it's supposed to be the best possible weapon, at least with the last few games. Older games were less insistent on it being the end all be all, I'll admit.

you people are never going to get over weapon durability huh?

The funny thing is I was fine with it more or less in BOTW. The Master sword and certain other things shouldn't break, but for the most part I thought the durability worked fine, I just wanted them to expand it with more systems and the ability to create weapons and buy and store and repair weapons, instead we got fuse which actively makes the durability "problem" much worse.

 

[AtomicZach]

You know, everything about the past memories makes me feel like they purposefully left things open for a Warriors spin-off. Not only making sure the conflict is hidden to the viewer, but also things like including Koume and Kotake as lieutenants and small things like mentioning that there are multiple Gerudo settlements. It feels like fodder for the Warriors team to make a game, canon or not.

 

[Phendrift]

You know, everything about the past memories makes me feel like they purposefully left things open for a Warriors spin-off. Not only making sure the conflict is hidden to the viewer, but also things like including Koume and Kotake as lieutenants and small things like mentioning that there are multiple Gerudo settlements. It feels like fodder for the Warriors team to make a game, canon or not.

It’d definitely be interesting, they’d have to come up with a lot more stuff than they did for AOC.

The sages of the past are all nameless blank slates, they’d have to make them have character and personality. There’s also no Link, so would we have that new ancient hero aspect link?

Would also love to see Koume and Kotake. It’s hard to tell from their brief appearance, but I would hope they’re more than just soldiers. I want them to still be witches in this interpretation, even if it’s not the cartoony broomstick-riding kind they normally are. And of course a Twinrova form as well.

I do think there’s a lot in TOTK’s past that could be elaborated on by DLC/Spin-offs. There’s definitely interesting things to flesh out

 

[AtomicZach]

It’d definitely be interesting, they’d have to come up with a lot more stuff than they did for AOC.

The sages of the past are all nameless blank slates, they’d have to make them have character and personality. There’s also no Link, so would we have that new ancient hero aspect link?

Would also love to see Koume and Kotake. It’s hard to tell from their brief appearance, but I would hope they’re more than just soldiers. I want them to still be witches in this interpretation, even if it’s not the cartoony broomstick-riding kind they normally are. And of course a Twinrova form as well.

I do think there’s a lot in TOTK’s past that could be elaborated on by DLC/Spin-offs. There’s definitely interesting things to flesh out

Something that's interesting is that with the Gerudo Sage, we have Fire, Ice, and Lightning Gerudo users. I wonder if they could use that.

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

It’d definitely be interesting, they’d have to come up with a lot more stuff than they did for AOC.

The sages of the past are all nameless blank slates, they’d have to make them have character and personality. There’s also no Link, so would we have that new ancient hero aspect link?

Would also love to see Koume and Kotake. It’s hard to tell from their brief appearance, but I would hope they’re more than just soldiers. I want them to still be witches in this interpretation, even if it’s not the cartoony broomstick-riding kind they normally are. And of course a Twinrova form as well.

I do think there’s a lot in TOTK’s past that could be elaborated on by DLC/Spin-offs. There’s definitely interesting things to flesh out

If there's a Hyrule Warriors: The Imprisoning War, it's absolutely going to be an Age of Calamity affair where Link and the new sages, perhaps even the old champions, are pulled back into the past to fight Ganondorf.

 

[Lugia667]

yeah they arent' ever going to make a hyrule warriors game without Link as he is the "Default" character

 

[Rareware]

I’m at nearly 180 hours now and just finished the Monster Hunting sidequests given at Lookout Landing. I speak to him after and had an honest-to-Hylia wtf moment when the game actually keeps track of how many Hinoxes, Froxes, Moldugas, Gleeoks, and Flux Constructs are left to kill. I was wondering why the game was telling me I had already defeated them if I encountered the same one again. Now I know why.

There’s just so many things to do and with such a ridiculous amount of content that I honestly think I could play another 180 hours and possibly still not be completely finished.

 

[fourfourfun]

First off, I think I enjoyed BotW a bit more than TotK.

I think I really enjoyed TOTK because of BOTW, it really enhanced it. However I don't think it has made it obsolete.

There is something about the beginning with Great Plateau, the little groove you get into once you get a bit of stamina and Revali and, weirdly, the "emptiness" is really nice to decompress into. It's quite nice to dash about everywhere knowing that I don't really have to construct a traversal machine, or discovering SOMETHING every few mins.

I'm not going to play favourites though. They're both incredible. But it'd be like not watching Star Wars because Empire Strikes Back exists.

Obviously Age Of Calamity is Return Of The Jedi.

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

Only thing I'd change about the Master Sword in TotK specifically is no degradation when used against gloom enemies on top of the damage bump. I already think it's a little bit too useful to the point where other, more powerful weapons keep stacking up in my fully maxed-out inventory. But this change would feel "special" enough without completely messing up the balance.

 

[DenkeyKong]

I still haven't beaten the game and so won't be reading any of the other posts (except for replies to this one), but I need to rant about this.

Among the many improvements this game makes on BotW, the most impactful to me was in how it tells its story. The first time I felt disappointment while playing BotW was when I completed the Great Plateau and the game dumps the entire story on you all at once. You're told everything that happened and told "go here to beat Ganon". I was expecting the same in TotK, but was delighted when, after finishing the Great Sky Island, we're left with more questions than answers.

What happened to Zelda? What happened to the Master Sword? What does it mean to "find her" when she's clearly in the past? Unlike BotW, the air of mystery and sense of intrigue would continue past the tutorial. The story, and not just the gameplay, would serve as motivation for progression. The game also went out of its way to spell out the order of the memories, leaving it up to the player to choose how, and at what pace, the story would unfold. I accepted this option and decided I would check the geoglyphs in order, a little at a time as I completed the main story quests. I would save the final few until after completing all the dungeons. I watched the first 2 on the way to the Wind Temple, growing more curious when Zelda briefly appears to guide us. I worked toward some long-running side quests, many of which, like the newspaper, also pertain the the central question of what happened to Zelda. It was gaming euphoria.

Then I watched the 3rd memory on the way to Eldin.

I don't understand Nintendo's thinking. The memories are literally called "Tears of the Dragon." We're clearly shown a new dragon during the title reveal. The logo has dragons in an ouroboros arrangement. Did they serious think they could mention becoming immortal through dragonification without immediately giving away everything to anyone with the deductive capacity of an 10 year old?

I immediately knew the dragon in the sky was Zelda. It sucked all the enthusiasm out of me like a punch in the guy. Did they seriously just ruin the main hook of the story with that kind of "hint" in only the 3rd memory?

Later on, I was completing a shrine quest in the sky and the new dragon just happened to be very close to me. Knowing it was Zelda, I glided closer to it and saw the sword on its head. Now, before even completing my second dungeon, I've got the Master Sword, have seen the final memory, and no longer have the main mystery of the story as a motivating factor for playing.

It's so disappointing because I know how satisfying it would have been to experience that kind of reveal toward the end of the game, having spent my time slowing consuming the story all while wondering what happened to Zelda and the Master Sword. And giving it away was so completely unnecessary. All the memory had to do was say that consuming a secret stone would make one immortal, but that it would have severe consequences. It would be the same foreboding moment that hints that Zelda may have done something drastic to get back to the present without ruining the story's main twist.

Nintendo wanted players to have the option to find the Master Sword early, or even stumble upon it. I get that. But by tying the Master Sword to the main hook of the story, they also gave players the freedom to completely ruin the story for themselves. If they at least hadn't given the "hint" in the third memory the odds of that happening would be extremely small.

It's a major blemish on what was shaping up to be quite possibly my favorite game ever. I'm still enjoying it a lot, and there's plenty of motivating factors for playing other than the story, but it just sucks to think about how truly special this entire playthrough could have been.

I think this is one area these kind of games can still gain a lot on. For me, I did the Goron quest and then did the Impa quest revealing to me that memories were in the game. I am way too curious for my own good, so when I found out all the memories are easily found and they even give you a map showing they are, I ran across Hyrule from memory to memory with 0 self-restraint. Story spoilers below btw, if you have not seen all the memories.

It was kind of a snoozer to find out Sonia dies by accidentally getting one of the later memories first. But I consider myself lucky because I there is a memory that is back-to-back and I found part 1 first. I can imagine how weird and not very nice storytelling it must be to get a memory and then see Sonia randomly lying dead on the floor.

After seeing all the memories though, I knew what happened with Zelda, but nothing of the world seemed to change. Purah was still blabbering about the main quests, Paya and co were still under the impression that they had seen Zelda, but it was in fact a puppet of Ganondorf I knew. It felt kind of meh. So, after that I went for the master sword and retrieved it (super cool and memorable how it's done btw). Still no reaction, so I didnt really care for the story quests that much anymore, because I had seen the core already anyway.

A bit later I decided I wanted to challenge Ganondorf, with just Yunobro. I got my best weapons and dishes and beat the game (the final fight had 8 phases for me haha). It was great, but I can't help but feel I did not experience the game the proper way. Which got me thinking, what is the correct way to experience the game? Are there incorrect ones?

Anyway, I'll probably go back for the rest of the main quests in like half a year. Game was fun, but not mindblowing (yet).

 

[Horror Kid]

I activated all light roots in the depths, finally!
Finished the Master Kohga questline as well.
I have very few objectives left in the depths (King Gleeok, one or two colosseums, ..probably a small mine with a treasure chest), but otherwise I am glad I am done with it.
Honestly, I think the depths being this big make the game worse than better because now I absolutely do not look forward to it in a second playthrough (might skip most of it because it doesn't matter anyway).
This could have been so cool, but it is just tedious and boring most of the time (yes, there are some highlights - I just found the big brethren statue on the edge of a cliff, looks awesome).


Now I am back to explore the surface for the remaining sidequests, caves, wells, treasures - and it reminds me again how much I loved just exploring everything in BotW. It is such a beautiful, diverse, handcrafted world.

I didn't explore the wetlands and the road to Zora domain in TotK yet. Such a nice atmosphere.
Reading all the stone tablets messages by Sidon is great. I found a very vertical cave where I ascended through vertebra. Great design.
Many caves are really awesome.