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Pre-Release Fire Emblem Engage — Pre-release Discussion Thread

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Anyway, talking about the game itself and not about how it compares to 3H, I noticed several characters use different weapons than in the original stained glass art: Ike uses a sword instead of an axe, Lucina a sword instead of a bow and Lyn a bow instead of a sword.

I also kind of wonder if the game will feature the story from before Alear went to sleep. I imagine the initial scenes of the trailer are from 1,000 years ago, and the villain's final line about everyone Alear cares about being dead makes me feel we may see a bit more of their previous life than we expected at first.
 
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Can't wait until 2024 when a new FE game is announced and people complain about it being "too anime" and wishing for Engage's style to return.
This absolutely did not happen with Fates, a game I'm a noted liker of in spite of thinking (a lot, though not all, of) the character designs are pretty trash

It's not what you'd call a standard cycle for the series
 
Childlike is closer but still how I would describe it. Probably closer to vtuber since we see a few more female characters in this trailer which give that vibe.
Well, vtubers are kinda childlike looking...
Isekai is the most criticized because there are just a lot of bad ones out there with studios trying to cash in as cheaply as possible. Even then there are still a wide amount of variety between isekai
oh, yeah, for shure. I mean isekai is so broad. Escaflowne was one back then. But it is a genre with a ton of cheap and badly made stories that have a twist/gimich that holds for the first 3 jokes and then there are 23,5 episodes left in that sweason...
It really has nothing to do with taking inspiration from critical darlings or the masses but what the developer in question is comfortable with. Since it is a Gust production then it is going to have a certain look to it. Just like how 3H has a certain look to it because of Omega Force.
Oh, shure, but there was the decision to go to gust for the visuals. they as well could have chosen a completly different studio.
So it was an active decision to ask them in particular. And while TH had influence by omega force, the influence is by faaaar mot as strong as the one from gust.
 
Very surprised that the baddies can use the good guy rings instead of the thing everyone expected (Big bad uses a Medeus ring and etc and etc). Still not a fan of the art style and dislike most designs, but the graphics do look MUCH better than 3H, so it has it's perks,
 
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Well, vtubers are kinda childlike looking...
Some vtubers look younger than others. The range of their designs is extremely diverse (young, mature, humanoid, completely inhuman) and categorizing them as blanket childlike really just indicates you don't know much about the community.
 
Don't vibe with the voice acting and what I guess the story is going to be like but this game is a looker from a technical POV, really sharp and colorful.
 
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Well, vtubers are kinda childlike looking...
I mean not really considering the breadth of vtuber out there.
oh, yeah, for shure. I mean isekai is so broad. Escaflowne was one back then. But it is a genre with a ton of cheap and badly made stories that have a twist/gimich that holds for the first 3 jokes and then there are 23,5 episodes left in that sweason...
You can say that about a lot of genres really. Isekai just happens to be the really popular super genre. I remember when people were declaring anime dead because of “moe” with about the same criticisms.
Oh, shure, but there was the decision to go to gust for the visuals. they as well could have chosen a completly different studio.
So it was an active decision to ask them in particular. And while TH had influence by omega force, the influence is by faaaar mot as strong as the one from gust.
If IS wanted to work with OF then there really isn’t that many studios they could have chosen. And, while they may have chosen Gust for visuals; I suspect they actually did it more for 3D game knowledge.
 
Can't wait until 2024 when a new FE game is announced and people complain about it being "too anime" and wishing for Engage's style to return.
This isn’t a cycle that happens with Fire Emblem unless you pick out specific posts, and even then, I think it’s generally a dislike of particular art styles that are closer to Fates/Engage and further from PoR/TH etc. Some posts frame that poorly, but some reactions assume any criticism of Fire Emblem (or JRPGs in general) comes from ‘not liking anime’ too. For the most part, I think it’s fair to say a lot of FE players prefer a particular type of anime art style from (x) game. Which is kinda expected when we’re a fanbase of decades of games with various styles of art direction and choices to work best on various hardware. People are gonna have preferences and we don’t need to circle the wagons every time. Hell I love PoR but the battle animations on GC were rubbish and dark compared to the bright pixel art of the GBA games :)

Honestly, I’m assuming everyone in here likes FE as much as I do, I can happily talk about the things I do and don’t like about any of them, even my favourites.
 
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Glad this place has level headed discussion unlike the other site where everything around this game is a crapstorm. Embarassed to see those toxic takes ngl.
 
Some vtubers look younger than others. The range of their designs is extremely diverse (young, mature, humanoid, completely inhuman) and categorizing them as blanket childlike really just indicates you don't know much about the community.
Please dont start that. Im aware that every comunity has a lot of nuance and diversity,... but where is the bulk? what are the most prominent ones? Thats what im refering.
 
If IS wanted to work with OF then there really isn’t that many studios they could have chosen. And, while they may have chosen Gust for visuals; I suspect they actually did it more for 3D game knowledge.
Omega Force made FEW1 and 2, but to my understanding, Three Houses was more the work of staff that worked on Romance of the Three Kingdoms (so staff from the Kou Shibusawa studio). They just happened to make Three Houses in the same engine used for Musou titles.
 
I mean not really considering the breadth of vtuber out there.
anime characters tend generally to apear young. ask the average person out there, he will probably asume that many of those characters are at most in their teens. But thats it, i wont comment anymore on VTubers here.

You can say that about a lot of genres really. Isekai just happens to be the really popular super genre. I remember when people were declaring anime dead because of “moe” with about the same criticisms.
I mean, yeah. I did not say other genres dont have that problem when they et popular. iseak still is at that point currently. Thats not really against my point? Trends get created, thought of easy money comes up, a lot of crap gets produced. Shure.
If IS wanted to work with OF then there really isn’t that many studios they could have chosen. And, while they may have chosen Gust for visuals; I suspect they actually did it more for 3D game knowledge.
I asume its a combination of both. After all FE characters always where more in the anime artstyle, and especially with the Switch they had the power to go further with that, so a studio that had anime artstyle experience and a clean look, seems like a good fit. (except i feel their style is to much in the clean bright saturated colors compared to the whole series. But thtas personal taste)
 
Omega Force made FEW1 and 2, but to my understanding, Three Houses was more the work of staff that worked on Romance of the Three Kingdoms (so staff from the Kou Shibusawa studio). They just happened to make Three Houses in the same engine used for Musou titles.
Right what should of said is KT instead of OF for IS choosing teams.. You can definitely feel both aspects of those in 3H though.
 
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Please dont start that. Im aware that every comunity has a lot of nuance and diversity,... but where is the bulk? what are the most prominent ones? Thats what im refering.
Not sure I would call the prominent faces from Hololife like Kiara or Mori "childlike". There are A LOT of "big tiddy vtuber"s or "mommy"s. It's just annoying.
the real problem why the female characters look too younf for me personally is their "baby face" not the fact that their designer is a "vtuber designer". This is just insulting really. There are a lof of Japanese artists who designed vtubers, even if their main work are other arts.
 
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A significant amount of “discourse” around FE seems to stem from people not having the right vocabulary to describe what they like or don’t like. Either not understanding the difference between character design, art direction, animation and general production values, OR because there really aren’t terms to describe variation between anime styles, thus “v-tuber” as a descriptor and/or pejorative, “too anime” etc.
 
A significant amount of “discourse” around FE seems to stem from people not having the right vocabulary to describe what they like or don’t like. Either not understanding the difference between character design, art direction, animation and general production values, OR because there really aren’t terms to describe variation between anime styles, thus “v-tuber” as a descriptor and/or pejorative, “too anime” etc.
Well at least anime styles, dont know how far into it you have to be to have specific terms, but the lines are really blurry in that regard so... how would you describe that?

In terms of art direction: style and direction overlap heavily, but the soroundings definitely dont really fit to the overly clean character designes for me.

animation and production values seem fine to great i asume from what we've seen.

character design... yeah, thats where im really strugling. at least in combination with the artstyle, both by themselve i could live with, but the kombination kinda breaks it.
 
anime characters tend generally to apear young. ask the average person out there, he will probably asume that many of those characters are at most in their teens. But thats it, i wont comment anymore on VTubers here.
I won’t go further either but there is a very big difference between childlike & teens.
I mean, yeah. I did not say other genres dont have that problem when they et popular. iseak still is at that point currently. Thats not really against my point? Trends get created, thought of easy money comes up, a lot of crap gets produced. Shure.
Alright then what was the point you are trying to make, since I was pointing out that isekai is not the only one this happens to. Which you seem to acknowledge.
 
This isn’t a cycle that happens with Fire Emblem unless you pick out specific posts, and even then, I think it’s generally a dislike of particular art styles that are closer to Fates/Engage and further from PoR/TH etc. Some posts frame that poorly, but some reactions assume any criticism of Fire Emblem (or JRPGs in general) comes from ‘not liking anime’ too. For the most part, I think it’s fair to say a lot of FE players prefer a particular type of anime art style from (x) game. Which is kinda expected when we’re a fanbase of decades of games with various styles of art direction and choices to work best on various hardware. People are gonna have preferences and we don’t need to circle the wagons every time. Hell I love PoR but the battle animations on GC were rubbish and dark compared to the bright pixel art of the GBA games :)

Honestly, I’m assuming everyone in here likes FE as much as I do, I can happily talk about the things I do and don’t like about any of them, even my favourites.
My post isn't all that serious, but it's definitely funny when remembering how TH was definitely received as "too anime" as first, people complaining about the designs being "sameface" and basically several of the complaints being repeated from back then.

In the end, FE has went through many iterations in terms of art style and themes, so it has a very disjointed fanbase. It also makes me laugh when people are so hesistant about a simple good vs evil story when that has been the plot for several entries of the series. Not every entry has the deep politics and world building of TH... But it is what it is, people want different things and will post about it.
 
It looks amazing.

But I don’t understand crap of what’s going on.

Do I need to play other games before this one?
Not really, this game features "summons" from previous games but you can just assume they're like historical figures and it shouldn't matter if you're or aren't familiar with their actual stories.
 
Shrug I think it looks great, character designs included. I also love the more so-called "serious" and "grounded" FE styles like FE4, Tellius, SoV, etc. It's okay for IS to experiment with both styles, ya know. Not every game needs to be some extremely wordy 3H-esque tell don't show politicking lol. And despite the revisionist history people keep peddling, 3H was absolutely shat on for a lot of the same things people are complaining about with Engage. Actually, people had one additional complaint with 3H that isn't prevelant with Engage: the ugly graphics lol.

Well, anyway, you guys think we'll get an Engage Direct? Maybe around mid-December? I think it's pretty likely tbh, especially since this trailer was a story/cutscene trailer without any new gameplay. If towns/dungeons/etc are in the game as per the Reddit leak (gosh, I really hope so lol), then they would probably use this hypothetical Direct to reveal them. Speaking of gameplay, I do hope we continue getting more new clips on the JP Twitter account now that we've seen a lot more characters. Hopefully with different maps (and different kingdoms) than what we've seen thus far in the Twitter clips.
 
I won’t go further either but there is a very big difference between childlike & teens.
Compared to their audience i count early mid teens to "childlike", but thats of corse a weak point and can be discussed,

... but in the context of "those are characters going to war" i feel like early teens count as children, and in prior FE games it was always weird when you have a "small sister" character on the battlefield, and the trope of the 1k year old dragon is also one FE did partake in. This seems to push further towards those aspects.
Alright then what was the point you are trying to make, since I was pointing out that isekai is not the only one this happens to. Which you seem to acknowledge.
That isekai currently is the trend that gets dumped with a lot of crap, and (100% subjectively) the artstyle we see here reminds me a lot of all those generic looking isekai.
Most of them have undescriptive dark ages european style armor, weapons, settings.
Thats ironically a good fit for FE, so chosing an artstyle that isnt to far makes it apealing to masses, but its also folowing a trend where im a) dissapointed that it seems to me as if its shedding its strength (it did had colored hair, but did never go this overboard as an example) and appeales to a financially smart but (and again, 100% subjective) artistically "lazyer" way. The last 4 games looked like FE to me, even with different artstyles. This... kinda doesnt. And i find it hard to pinpoint (as is probably obvious from ne strugling to have concise points).
 
My post isn't all that serious, but it's definitely funny when remembering how TH was definitely received as "too anime" as first, people complaining about the designs being "sameface" and basically several of the complaints being repeated from back then.

In the end, FE has went through many iterations in terms of art style and themes, so it has a very disjointed fanbase. It also makes me laugh when people are so hesistant about a simple good vs evil story when that has been the plot for several entries of the series. Not every entry has the deep politics and world building of TH... But it is what it is, people want different things and will post about it.
Fair enough, I apologise for throwing a wall of text at it then :D

I’m totally down for a good v evil story after a few years of unpacking TH. One of the things I really like about it is the dark dragon in this one. Is it wrong if that’s my favourite character design so far? I love the cobra hood on it, it gives a fresh vibe to a cliche :)
 
Please dont start that. Im aware that every comunity has a lot of nuance and diversity,... but where is the bulk? what are the most prominent ones? Thats what im refering.
I don't want to harp on this, but I have seen comments, particularly back in the old place, that were extremely ignorant about Vtubers to the point of offensive. (Ex: "All vtubers look like kids", "All vtubers are grown women sounding and acting like children".)

I'm not saying you're doing that, but as someone that enjoys a pretty broad swath of Vtubers, I just wish there was more thought in commentary around them in general.
 
That isekai currently is the trend that gets dumped with a lot of crap, and (100% subjectively) the artstyle we see here reminds me a lot of all those generic looking isekai.
Most of them have undescriptive dark ages european style armor, weapons, settings.
on a lighter note, don’t forget the toilet seat armour :)
 
Well at least anime styles, dont know how far into it you have to be to have specific terms, but the lines are really blurry in that regard so... how would you describe that?

Exactly, that’s the problem. Anime is variations on a theme and there aren’t really good ways to describe the difference between them. So folks are like “what do you mean it’s too anime, it’s always anime” and the discussions go south from there.

My post wasn’t about you btw, it’s just something that generally trips up discussion.
 
Fair enough, I apologise for throwing a wall of text at it then :D

I’m totally down for a good v evil story after a few years of unpacking TH. One of the things I really like about it is the dark dragon in this one. Is it wrong if that’s my favourite character design so far? I love the cobra hood on it, it gives a fresh vibe to a cliche :)
I love the cobra dragon as well, it's really cool. I may be sorta alone but I dig Alear's design... well, the male version at least.
 
A significant amount of “discourse” around FE seems to stem from people not having the right vocabulary to describe what they like or don’t like. Either not understanding the difference between character design, art direction, animation and general production values, OR because there really aren’t terms to describe variation between anime styles, thus “v-tuber” as a descriptor and/or pejorative, “too anime” etc.
I'm probably in this category since I really can't describe what I don't like about it. Is not about being "anime" that's for sure, I'm buying this game and I'm gonna play it as soon as I can but since Awakening FE feels like is not for me anymore (Echoes being the exception), that includes Awakening, Fates and TH all of them I have played for many hours and feel like they are part of a B series and not the SS series that it was to me.

To me, all this is to me just want to make sure that is clear, I respect people loving the FE games I think are weak
 
I love the cobra dragon as well, it's really cool. I may be sorta alone but I dig Alear's design... well, the male version at least.
I like the Prince of Brodia that they showed off today. Although If he’s a general ‘I’m strong, tough and axe-crazy but not very bright’ type that’ll be some classic nominative destiny. I also predict his father will live for about five minutes after the scion of ‘Brodia’ joins the party. Maybe I’ve played too many of these games lol.
 
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I don't want to harp on this, but I have seen comments, particularly back in the old place, that were extremely ignorant about Vtubers to the point of offensive. (Ex: "All vtubers look like kids", "All vtubers are grown women sounding and acting like children".)

I'm not saying you're doing that, but as someone that enjoys a pretty broad swath of Vtubers, I just wish there was more thought in commentary around them in general.
Oh, okay then. Its another subgenre with its subgenres, there is a point where it gets ridiculous (im not saying vtubing is that level), but if somebody likes it, everybody is with conscent, and nobody feels entitles to anything, who am i to judge.

Its kinda like talking about furies, metalheads or ambient fans.
I listened to my fair share of metal, i know how different pagan from power from post from doom from stoner from alternative metal is... but if you ask a person to describe a metalhead, there is a high chance that the description will describe a trope.
And as someone who has half of his friend circle either current or former metalheads... yeah, the avrage metalhead is that way. at least here. Does not mean there isnt more nuance. I would never say "you like metalica or evanesence? then you will like meshuggah or heilung.

Im into ambient, and while basinsky and hecker are great, im aware that the generall asumption of ambient is long slow piano pieces/loops, or pads with maaaybe some field recording of birds mixed in.

And also, sometimes people in a subculture loose perspective.
How some fans of more abrasive music experience it, they see stuff as soft and pop where the average radio listener would be "help, whats this, sounds like its straight out of hell".
With anime (and to an extend vtubing) i feel the "how old does a character look" question will more often then not be answered older then the offline world none anime/vtube person would say.

Sorry, i rambled. What i wanted to say: it is for shure a diverse field, but the front thats represented to the mainstream seems rather joung overall, some like a child, some like teenagers. not all obviously.
Thats what i compared it to, because of the bright colors, strong outline, soft faces, and that VTubers are also (usually) 3D models emulating anime style.

on a lighter note, don’t forget the toilet seat armour :)
...what? i feel like i missed something there =O an important piece of culture?
Exactly, that’s the problem. Anime is variations on a theme and there aren’t really good ways to describe the difference between them. So folks are like “what do you mean it’s too anime, it’s always anime” and the discussions go south from there.

My post wasn’t about you btw, it’s just something that generally trips up discussion.
Oh for shure. Its hard, the finer the details get. My example up there with metal... starting to get into the sub sub genres feels like... how is it possible that those 2 records that sound almost the same are 2 different genres, but then that band had 2 completly different sounding records, and its still the same genre. At some point the specificity of labels cant really provide value in the discourse. same as discussing 2 white tones 2 shades appart in the context of bright red, blue, neon green and black doesnt really make sense, while it being combined with almost white pstel colors where it can make a huge differece.
 
Man, people really hate anime in video games. Do they also hate cel shading/cartoon in video games as well?
 
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I love me some anime, but this certainly looks to be breaching the territory of "fuckin' anime"

...But I'm still Day One because I'm sure it'll still be fun
 
Hololive VTubers do tend to look like teenage girls, saving exceptions like Gura, the most popular VTuber on the planet, who looks like she's under 10

I'd argue that the VTuber discussion is actually on-topic here; the character designer for this game designed VTubers before being contracted by Gust for Engage, didn't she?
 
Not a FE player, but I'll get this.

It's also dominating the past games in the visuals department.

I noticed there has been a vocal "Dexit-like" segment of the FE fanbase on Twitter that has been against this game from the jump, rooting for it to bomb. Can someone explain?
 
This is categorically false. Three Houses is easily and by far the best-selling entry in the entire franchise, and its sexualization is very low compared to other Awakening-era games. Its spin-off Musou game outsold every single Fire Emblem that came out before Awakening!

This art style change has yet to prove itself in terms of appeal, and there's no reason to assume it will be the standard going forward
engage is at least in Japanese preorders tracking over three houses
 
I really want to be excited for this game, but the more I see from it the less I’m vibing it. The artstyle, character design, voice acting, story and tone, even the main gameplay gimmick of summoning old characters just feels like a massive step back from Three Houses for me. Even if you want to compare it just to Three Houses’ initial trailers this doesn’t compare favourably at all.

I’m not optimistic they’re hiding something that’s going to completely change my opinion on these elements once I play the game either. Those first few trailers for TH didn’t reveal everything, but they still showed the tone, character design, world building and type of story they went for in the final game.
 
Not a FE player, but I'll get this.

It's also dominating the past games in the visuals department.

I noticed there has been a vocal "Dexit-like" segment of the FE fanbase on Twitter that has been against this game from the jump, rooting for it to bomb. Can someone explain?
I'm not on Twitter, but if I had to guess, people are dissatisfied that it looks like this game is building off of the themes, character designs (including cheesecake), and storytelling of the mobile game, Fire Emblem Heroes, rather than the successes of the previous console game, Fire Emblem Three Houses. People tend to think of Heroes as mostly being a bad monetization engine, and Three Houses is seen as a return to form for Fire Emblem that went in hard on well-written characters and an interesting setting, while also having much better character designs than the series had seen in the previous 15 years or so

engage is at least in Japanese preorders tracking over three houses
I'm aware, but there's no reason to panic even if Engage actually outsells Three Houses, which would be a very tall order

If the game after Engage looks like Engage in terms of its characters, setting, writing, etc., all right, go ahead and panic
 
Oh, okay then. Its another subgenre with its subgenres, there is a point where it gets ridiculous (im not saying vtubing is that level), but if somebody likes it, everybody is with conscent, and nobody feels entitles to anything, who am i to judge.

Its kinda like talking about furies, metalheads or ambient fans.
I listened to my fair share of metal, i know how different pagan from power from post from doom from stoner from alternative metal is... but if you ask a person to describe a metalhead, there is a high chance that the description will describe a trope.
And as someone who has half of his friend circle either current or former metalheads... yeah, the avrage metalhead is that way. at least here. Does not mean there isnt more nuance. I would never say "you like metalica or evanesence? then you will like meshuggah or heilung.

Im into ambient, and while basinsky and hecker are great, im aware that the generall asumption of ambient is long slow piano pieces/loops, or pads with maaaybe some field recording of birds mixed in.

And also, sometimes people in a subculture loose perspective.
How some fans of more abrasive music experience it, they see stuff as soft and pop where the average radio listener would be "help, whats this, sounds like its straight out of hell".
With anime (and to an extend vtubing) i feel the "how old does a character look" question will more often then not be answered older then the offline world none anime/vtube person would say.

Sorry, i rambled. What i wanted to say: it is for shure a diverse field, but the front thats represented to the mainstream seems rather joung overall, some like a child, some like teenagers. not all obviously.
Thats what i compared it to, because of the bright colors, strong outline, soft faces, and that VTubers are also (usually) 3D models emulating anime style.


...what? i feel like i missed something there =O an important piece of culture?

Oh for shure. Its hard, the finer the details get. My example up there with metal... starting to get into the sub sub genres feels like... how is it possible that those 2 records that sound almost the same are 2 different genres, but then that band had 2 completly different sounding records, and its still the same genre. At some point the specificity of labels cant really provide value in the discourse. same as discussing 2 white tones 2 shades appart in the context of bright red, blue, neon green and black doesnt really make sense, while it being combined with almost white pstel colors where it can make a huge differece.
Catch me talking about toilet seat collars here https://famiboards.com/threads/fire...kens-trailer-see-threadmarks.3765/post-432822

I’ll warn you though, it’s about the least essential bit of fire emblem dialogue so far, you aren’t missing much (as amusing as I find it!) :)
 
I think there's a pretty good chance this game outsells 3H tbh. Not guaranteed or anything, and we'll need to see more of the game before fully making a judgement on its sales potential, but it definitely could imo. I mean, I hope so, I love FE lol. It would be cool to see this game be the first to surpass 5m sales, just like 3H was the first to pass 3m and (presumably) 4m.
 
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Hololive VTubers do tend to look like teenage girls, saving exceptions like Gura, the most popular VTuber on the planet, who looks like she's under 10

I'd argue that the VTuber discussion is actually on-topic here; the character designer for this game designed VTubers before being contracted by Gust for Engage, didn't she?
Pikazo has designed three Vtuber avatars to my knowledge, though I believe the only one currently active is Hakos Baelz, who is the avatar used by an Australian woman. But...that's all there is to say there. Pikazo's other freelance work has largely included illustrations for light novels.

Chinatsu Kurahana, who did the Three Houses designs, wasn't previously known for designing Vtubers, but this year created the avatar for Regis Altaire, a male talent.

Neither of these characters look under ten, and in Baelz's case, while the avatar is small, the streamer behind her is also known to be small in real life. (She recently revealed on stream she's sub-5' in height.)

But this is all veering the topic away from FE character designs.
 
I'm aware, but there's no reason to panic even if Engage actually outsells Three Houses, which would be a very tall order

If the game after Engage looks like Engage in terms of its characters, setting, writing, etc., all right, go ahead and panic
i dont really care if it outsells three houses just pointing out that the anime moeblob aesthetics dont seem to be hurting it. and the lesson we should have all walked away with from dexit is that online outrage rarely translates to the real world.
 
Trailer was cool. Just itching for it to release already. I missed 3H so I might get that during Black Friday to prep for this .
 
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Theres nothing wrong with the possibility of Engage outselling 3H. Cmon fami. Don't be like that other site, judging the book by its cover.
Nobody's suggesting there's a problem with it outselling Three Houses, just that there's no reason to assume that this game will mark a permanent shift to a Heroes-style character/plot combo for the series going forward
 
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