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Pre-Release The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom Pre-Release Discussion Thread

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Can't that just be framed in-game lore as time reversal of the object ? That wording does say "previously recorded positions" so it seems effectively the mechanical implementation of a rewind feature. For example a puzzle where Link has to send a mine cart backwards on a track, even if the mechanic is just moving it to a previous position, the hint might be "rewind it to where it once was". But it's a unique rewind because it's possible to place a bomb in the mine cart and then move it back.

Like how stasis is described as stopping the flow of time when it's just stopping the object in one of it's predetermined physics path.

I don't think so. The idea being of it being time reversal - and that reversal having an effect on said object transferring it to a previous state would also form part of the patent. So I'd say extremely unlikely. If you are simply affecting the movement and there is no state change then sure. But that goes against the theory put forward.

Also the idea just doesn't make sense on other levels. Firstly it would not be possible to have huge swathes of land dynamically changing on the fly in two locations (the raised object and the ground). And if it's limited to a small scale, doing it bit by bit, making any kind of significant land mass would take thousands of repeated sessions. It would not be a good mechanic but really quite tiresome

But this is just how I interpret it. Always ready to admit I could be missing something and be totally wrong lol
 
Let's not forget that SS and BotW share the same director. It wouldn't surprise me to see him champion that stuff.
It's been said before that Fujibayashi might look at SS, BotW, and BotW2 as a sort of thematic trilogy. He tried to make a Zelda trilogy with the Oracle games, and he might see this as his chance to try again.

If that's the case, I would not be surprised at all to see Skyloft stuff return.
 
There's some cut content in Skyward Sword that they can bring back in TotK
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New Stables probably tells us the game is at least a year after the end of BOTW. And looking at Link and Zelda, I can't imagine the game takes place any more than 3 years after BOTW.
 
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The durability system is one of the most commonly brought up complaints about the game and we already know from people like Emily that Nintendo employees hang around message boards. It's unlikely this hasn't reached the dev team and that they haven't at least looked at the system for the new game. Not sure why you make it sound like reacting to feedback is the same as throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I'm not saying that - I'm saying taking feedback from an incredibly niche sub section of gamers - ESPECIALLY when we talk about first party Nintendo titles that typically have millions or tens of millions of sales - is practically useless. I'm sure they will look at feedback - way at the bottom of any list of sources will be places like here and era.

Maybe NoA employees browse these places. Most likely doing so to preemptively firefight from a marketing perspective - they are not looking for feedback to pass on - especially bearing in mind they have about as much input into anything that goes on in Japan as talkie the toaster
 
With all of the ouroboros talk and theories of this potentially being both the beginning and the end of Zelda, it seems like Nintendo could be using this as a means to completely close out one of the timelines? While not yet confirmed, most things point to BotW and now, by extension, TotK, as taking place at the end of the Downfall Timeline, perhaps this will close this timeline out for good? Could be interesting knowing and seeing the complete version of one of the three. Maybe then they’d proceed to do something similar to the other two timelines and more games just filling in gaps in between.
 
I'm not saying that - I'm saying taking feedback from an incredibly niche sub section of gamers - ESPECIALLY when we talk about first party Nintendo titles that typically have millions or tens of millions of sales - is practically useless. I'm sure they will look at feedback - way at the bottom of any list of sources will be places like here and era.

Maybe NoA employees browse these places. Most likely doing so to preemptively firefight from a marketing perspective - they are not looking for feedback to pass on - especially bearing in mind they have about as much input into anything that goes on in Japan as talkie the toaster
ah ok
 
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While not yet confirmed, most things point to BotW and now, by extension, TotK, as taking place at the end of the Downfall Timeline, perhaps this will close this timeline out for good?
I've always thought the connections to the Child timeline were way stronger. But frankly, there are references to the whole series. I don't expect it to specifically address any one timeline, but by connecting to Skyward Sword, they could reboot the whole shebang and make that point moot.
 
I've always thought the connections to the Child timeline were way stronger. But frankly, there are references to the whole series. I don't expect it to specifically address any one timeline, but by connecting to Skyward Sword, they could reboot the whole shebang and make that point moot.

I read a post on Reddit a few days ago that really sold me on the Downfall Timeline. Sold me so much that it, combined with the excitement of reading through this thread, convinced me to actually replay BotW from the beginning again. And I said I would never do that because despite Zelda being my favorite franchise ever, I rarely return to open world games because of how much time is involved with them.

Anyway, here’s the Reddit post that sold me:

Breath of the Wild takes place in a Hyrule in which the Sages from Ocarina of Time were awakened (we know this from the Zora Stone Monuments, and from the fact that the names of two of the Divine Beasts are confirmed in game to be in honor of two of those sages).

From this we can rule out the Child Timeline.

This Hyrule also appears to be the original Hyrule. The Temple of Time stands at what the King Roham describes as "the birthplace of Hyrule", which is consistent with the Temple of Time from Ocarina of Time, which would have been destroyed at the end of Wind Waker. In fact, so would the Master Sword and possibly the Triforce itself.

From that we can rule out the Adult Timeline.

The Rito in BotW also coexist with the Zora, and special consideration appears to have been taken to set them apart from the Rito of Wind Waker. I think this is a good argument against the Adult Timeline on top of the fact we're in old Hyrule as the Rito in BotW appear to have a completely different origin story to their Wind Waker counterparts.

Process of elimination leaves with the Downfall Timeline as the only possible placement. Old Hyrule is still the only Hyrule, and it's history is one in which the Ocarina of Time Sages are awakened. It could even offer up an explanation of the BotW Rito's origins in the Fokka.

That said there's plenty to argue for the Downfall Timeline rather than just arguing against the other two:

  • Zelda's power appears to be the Triforce (a sentiment that it seems like Age of Calamity doubled down on). The only timeline in which we've seen the Royal Family pass down the fully completed Triforce through the generations is the Downfall Timeline. What's more, Zelda II ends with Link reuniting the full Triforce and using it to wake up Zelda. This means the last time the Triforce was seen in the Downfall Timeline it was fully completed and in a position where it could very well be passed on to a member of the Royal Family. In the Child Timeline's last game, the Triforce isn't mentioned, and in the Adult Timeline's last game, it might not even exist anymore.
  • The developers have described BotW's Hyrule as one which has been attacked by Ganon many many times. This is really only consistent with the Downfall Timeline. The Child Timeline comes in at two (and even then only if you count OoT/TP Ganon, and FSA Ganon both together even though they're different people), and the Adult Timeline does only slightly better at three (once for OoT, once for the flood, and once for WW).
The Downfall Timeline boasts an impressive five Ganon appearances. Possibly six if the Triforce being split pre-Link Between Worlds involved him appearing (though the game makes it sound as though it could have been split by someone else and he became the bearer of the Triforce of Power while sealed). If you were to describe any of the timelines as one that had been attacked by Ganon many times, it would be misleading to say that and not be talking about the Downfall Timeline.

  • Breath of the Wild owes a lot of it's DNA to the first LoZ. Dueling Peaks is inspired by LoZ's art, and a sort of proof of concept prototype BotW was made in 8-bit to look like the first Zelda. Even the openness of BotW is owed to trying to recapture elements of the series introduced with LoZ, but lost as the series evolved. Even the fact that BotW starts in a Hyrule that has already lost it's battle with Ganon is down to LoZ. It makes sense it would appear in the same timeline.
  • A weaker, but possibly relevant point would be that Lynels have only ever appeared in the Downfall Timeline, and the Tunic of the Wild is VERY reminiscent of the tunics worn by the Heroes of the Downfall Timeline.
The Downfall Timeline also offers a convenient explanation for Hylia worship's resurgence - a second coming resulting from the awakening of Zelda from her 100 year slumber at the end of Zelda II. Though at that point we're moving into theories and away from fact.

Anyway in conclusion, the Downfall Timeline has no real evidence against it, and much in it's favour. Child Timline is ruled out by awakened OoT sages, Adult Timeline is ruled out by Hyrule still existing.

Also OP, Aonuma did say that they're leaving the timeline placement of BotW to fans imaginations for now, but he's ALSO said that it has a place in the timeline that you can figure out by playing the game.

BotW DOES have a canon timeline placement, they're just not revealing it yet.
 
I read a post on Reddit a few days ago that really sold me on the Downfall Timeline. Sold me so much that it, combined with the excitement of reading through this thread, convinced me to actually replay BotW from the beginning again. And I said I would never do that because despite Zelda being my favorite franchise ever, I rarely return to open world games because of how much time is involved with them.

Anyway, here’s the Reddit post that sold me:
This'll take me awhile to get through, but I already disagree with it from the very first line of evidence so I doubt it will convince me haha
 
This'll take me awhile to get through, but I already disagree with it from the very first line of evidence so I doubt it will convince me haha

Haha well that’s always been one of the fun parts of Zelda. Trying to figure things out in our own ways with evidence pointing in one direction, evidence pointing in another. Then the it gets officially revealed and we just get to see thing s then with fresh eyes and “ohhhh okay. Well, this thing here makes sense now”. Love Zelda theorizing.
 
Haha well that’s always been one of the fun parts of Zelda. Trying to figure things out in our own ways with evidence pointing in one direction, evidence pointing in another. Then the it gets officially revealed and we just get to see thing s then with fresh eyes and “ohhhh okay. Well, this thing here makes sense now”. Love Zelda theorizing.
I think Zelda's speech about how the Master Sword was "Skyward Bound, then adrift in time, then steeped in the glowing embers of the Twilight" seems like by far the most explicit reference to a specific timeline, and it's 3-tiered and in a major cutscene.

The whole "Ganon defeated many times" thing works on any timeline, because Breath of the Wild is supposed to be tens of thousands of years in the future. Surely Ganon appeared in that time repeatedly.
 
With the game focused on the skies above Hyrule, and the fact they remastered Skyward Sword as a stopgap instead of WW/TP re-releases, there's in my mind close to 0% chance TotK is not heavily linked to SS
 
With the game focused on the skies above Hyrule, and the fact they remastered Skyward Sword as a stopgap instead of WW/TP re-releases, there's in my mind close to 0% chance TotK is not heavily linked to SS

Skyward Sword wasn't a stop gap. Aonuma had been hinting at a Switch port for years. SS HD was released around the 10-year anniversary of the original release, just like they did with TP and WW. A Skyward Sword remaster was completely expected regardless of the theming of TOTK.
 
Skyward Sword wasn't a stop gap. Aonuma had been hinting at a Switch port for years. SS HD was released around the 10-year anniversary of the original release, just like they did with TP and WW. A Skyward Sword remaster was completely expected regardless of the theming of TOTK.
Sure, stopgap/released in between BOTW/TOTK (no WW/TP), I don't disagree with you it was gonna be done anyway but it seems theres a pretty clear link with all the 3d zelda stuff they have tying in (Age Of Calamity prequel, Skyward Sword, Sky focused TOTK) to the BOTW story, that I'd say is on purpose somewhat
 
Good day everyone. I am new to this board and super excited for this game. I hope it's released alongside a Switch 2, or an upgraded model at the very least. C'mon 60fps Zelda!
 
Sure, stopgap/released in between BOTW/TOTK (no WW/TP), I don't disagree with you it was gonna be done anyway but it seems theres a pretty clear link with all the 3d zelda stuff they have tying in (Age Of Calamity prequel, Skyward Sword, Sky focused TOTK) to the BOTW story, that I'd say is on purpose somewhat

TOTK will have connections to Skyward Sword because BOTW already had connections to that game as well but I am not expecting very significant Direct tie-ins. I'm not expecting Fi and Ghirahim to be fist fighting atop the ruins of Skyloft or anything like that. The series usually isn't that overt with connections to previous games. I think at most, we might come across the ruins of Skyloft, but you would only recognize it if you had played Skyward Sword and it's more of an easter egg than a significant location for the story.
 
How the world has changed immediately after the events of BOTW is still one of the unknowns. What happened to the Divine Beasts? Did they reform the Champions with the descendants? I'm hoping we get to see some interaction between Zelda and elderly Impa

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A friend of mine that I hung out with yesterday told me something that blew my mind.
Basically, the 3D Zelda games all follow a pattern of being first different, then similar.

Every other game is different than the preceding one.

Majora's Mask? Very different from Ocarina of Time.
Wind Waker? Very different from Majora's Mask.
Twilight Princess? Very different from Wind Waker.
Skyward Sword? Very different from Twilight Princess.
Breath of the Wild? Very different from Skyward Sword.

However, what about every 2 games?

Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker - Fairly similar.
Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess - Fairly similar.
Wind Waker and Skyward Sword - Fairly similar.
Twilight Princess and Breath of the Wild - Fairly similar.

Now, Tears of the Kingdom arguably shares a lot with Skyward Sword, with it being set in the sky, and having means to traverse it, etc. But how will it be "Very different" from Breath of the Wild? Or will it be the first game to break this pattern?
 
A friend of mine that I hung out with yesterday told me something that blew my mind.
Basically, the 3D Zelda games all follow a pattern of being first different, then similar.

Every other game is different than the preceding one.

Majora's Mask? Very different from Ocarina of Time.
Wind Waker? Very different from Majora's Mask.
Twilight Princess? Very different from Wind Waker.
Skyward Sword? Very different from Twilight Princess.
Breath of the Wild? Very different from Skyward Sword.

However, what about every 2 games?

Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker - Fairly similar.
Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess - Fairly similar.
Wind Waker and Skyward Sword - Fairly similar.
Twilight Princess and Breath of the Wild - Fairly similar.

Now, Tears of the Kingdom arguably shares a lot with Skyward Sword, with it being set in the sky, and having means to traverse it, etc. But how will it be "Very different" from Breath of the Wild? Or will it be the first game to break this pattern?

How are Twilight Princess and Breath of the Wild similar? I'd argue Twilight Princess is more similar to Ocarina of Time.
 
However, what about every 2 games?

Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker - Fairly similar.
Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess - Fairly similar.
Wind Waker and Skyward Sword - Fairly similar.
Twilight Princess and Breath of the Wild - Fairly similar.

How is Twilight Princess similar to Breath of the Wild? Link takes his shirt off?
How is Skyward Sword similar to The Wind Waker? It uses cell shading?
How is Majora's Mask similar to Twilight Princess? I guess because they're both considered "dark" even though they're dark in completely different ways.
How is The Wind Waker similar to Ocarina of Time? It reuses the whole triad of the triforce trope?

You can make whole lists about the ways each game both similar and different to every other one.

Breath of the Wild is similar to Skyward Sword because it goes hard on the zelink dynamic.
Skyward Sword is different to The Wind Waker because it breaks the world into disconnected sections rather than having a seemless overworld.

We could go on.
 
I just read a really in-depth analysis comment left by MajoraZ over on GameXplain in response to their latest analysis of TotK. He is a historian on Ancient cultures specifically to iconography to MesoAmerican art. He talks a lot about the significance of the swirl patterns on serpents as it relates to their culture and art.
But what really got my attention was when He wrote “Conch shell cross sections were a major emblem of Quetzalcoatl, the Aztec version of the Feathered Serpent diety: Feathered serpents generally represent the dualism of the heavens and earth (hence avian and serpent aspects), or the boundaries/crossing between realms, but to the Aztec also represented learning, music, poetry, and high culture, and his aspect Ehecatl, the god of wind”
If we take this reference literally as it relates to the trailer then the Deity depicted at the beginning of the game could be a representation of the God of Wind and the 7 swirls surrounding it be actually cross sections of a Conch Shell representing the direction of wind. So it’s a throwback to Wind Waker where we need to collect these shells to control the direction of the wind to travel from island to island. That would explain the elongated streamers on the para glider as someone mentioned before. I also think we could have a compass for wind direction as well. Also the massive tornado as seen in the box art would be blocking that area until we could control the wind enough to calm it down.
 
Actually, Breath of the Wild is similar to Wind Waker
And Twilight Princess is similar to Ocarina of Time

By process of elimination, we can deduce that Skyward Sword is actually similar to Majora's Mask somehow
Wait don't they both have the hand toilet thing
 
Actually, Breath of the Wild is similar to Wind Waker
And Twilight Princess is similar to Ocarina of Time

By process of elimination, we can deduce that Skyward Sword is actually similar to Majora's Mask somehow
Wait don't they both have the hand toilet thing
They both have a hand toilet thing and a huge piece of rock falling down on Earth, omg you're 100% right.

EDIT: But the rest is so true. The sea is a type of open world we weren't getting from OOT, the Deku Leaf, the little small deviation from the formula of "three dungeons, then something happens, then more 5 dungeons, then face Ganon alone, all of that pretty straightforward", the Earth Temple reminding us of the Shrines design. Now TP is literally OOT again, they didn't even try with the Fire Temple, Water Temple, Forest Temple and so forth.
 
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SIMILARITY INDEX

BotW and ALBW are the two most similar Zeldas imo, perhaps followed by the similarity between OOT and TP.
MM and OOT are somewhat close on a superficial level, but are fundamentally quite unique.
WW is the opposite relative to OOT, close on a fundamental level but superficially unique.
SS, imo, boasts the most Independence from OOT of the flawed-era Zeldas.

Freedom to linear scale

BOTW -- ALBW -- ZELDA ----------------- OOT -- MM -- TP -- WW ---------- SS
 
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By process of elimination, we can deduce that Skyward Sword is actually similar to Majora's Mask somehow
Wait don't they both have the hand toilet thing

Unironically they are with the focus on a central town and townspeople quests.

I continue to wish Skyward Sword had a real day night cycle.
 
So then Tears of the Kingdom will definitely be like... Twilight Princess. Y'all gonna shit yourselves when Link turns into a godamn eagle.
 
I don't think so. The idea being of it being time reversal - and that reversal having an effect on said object transferring it to a previous state would also form part of the patent. So I'd say extremely unlikely. If you are simply affecting the movement and there is no state change then sure. But that goes against the theory put forward.
We can agree to disagree. All I'm ultimately saying is that their mechanic of recording an object's position and allowing the player to move an object through those previous positions can be framed as time reversal in the context of the game, and that appears to be what they're doing in the patent. That's basically what I'm going off of ever since I watched Monster Maze's video explaining it.

Specifically the text describing the limiting examples. You are right in that their implementation of it includes a state change (you can light a barrel on fire then send it backwards). But that seems to be a unique twist on it, and not something mutually exclusive with it being a time reversal.

In FIG. 12, when an operation of giving an instruction to start return movement of a designated object is performed, the designated object begins return movement and performs the immediately previous motion backward (in a time-reversed fashion). Specifically, based on data indicating a time series of positions (position data) and data indicating a time series of orientations (orientation data) which have been recorded since a predetermined period of time before the current time for each movable object OBJm, the designated object is moved, taking positions and orientations in the time series backward (in a time-reversed fashion).
[...]
In this non-limiting example, a designated object is caused to perform return movement in such a manner that the designated object returns to previously recorded positions and orientations sequentially backward (in a time-reversed manner) from the time point at which an operation of starting return movement is performed.
[...]
Thus, targets sequentially set while the designated object is performing return movement are set according to elapsed time such that the designated object returns to previously recorded positions and orientations sequentially backward (in a time-reversed fashion) from the time that an operation of starting return movement is performed.

I admit I'm tired and if my reading comprehension is shot, then please let me know. Or maybe I'm having trouble understanding you, as this verbose patent text is kind of melting my brain.

I do think it will be limited to scenarios where the object can be easily sent back i.e. can't time reverse a broken pot from shards back into a pot.

Also the idea just doesn't make sense on other levels. Firstly it would not be possible to have huge swathes of land dynamically changing on the fly in two locations (the raised object and the ground). And if it's limited to a small scale, doing it bit by bit, making any kind of significant land mass would take thousands of repeated sessions. It would not be a good mechanic but really quite tiresome

I agree that this sort of idea wouldn't mesh well with the literal mechanic as described, but I can see it as cutscene flavor. Link meets another entity who temporarily powers up a time reversal ability or has access to a specific place that can perform a 'global' time reversal, like a Timeshift Stone. There were local timeshift stones that modified a radius around Link and global ones that were an on/off switch for an entire area, the latter effectively being a cutscene rather than a real-time mechanic. I don't think the idea is mutually exclusive with what the patent outlines. But it is, ultimately imaginative speculation stemming from the idea that if Link has the power to reverse time locally, that might be related to the game's themes - or it's just a cool ability he happens to have.
 
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Hey everyone I just found something neat you should check out if you want to. Here is a link to the Nintendo Japan TotK website: https://www.nintendo.co.jp/zelda/totk/index.html

I'm on my phone right now, so the website might operate differently if you are on a laptop or desktop. If you scroll, the islands move a certain way depending on whether you scroll up or down. To me, it seems there is a very large floating, stone building (that we haven't seen in the trailers) behind Link. To see it, slowly scroll down half way and you should see it in the top right of your screen (I'm seeing this on my phone, might be different on desktop like I wrote).
 
Hey everyone I just found something neat you should check out if you want to. Here is a link to the Nintendo Japan TotK website: https://www.nintendo.co.jp/zelda/totk/index.html

I'm on my phone right now, so the website might operate differently if you are on a laptop or desktop. If you scroll, the islands move a certain way depending on whether you scroll up or down. To me, it seems there is a very large floating, stone building (that we haven't seen in the trailers) behind Link. To see it, slowly scroll down half way and you should see it in the top right of your screen (I'm seeing this on my phone, might be different on desktop like I wrote).
Holy shit you're right! I just compared it to the box art and it wasn't there!
 
Hey everyone I just found something neat you should check out if you want to. Here is a link to the Nintendo Japan TotK website: https://www.nintendo.co.jp/zelda/totk/index.html

I'm on my phone right now, so the website might operate differently if you are on a laptop or desktop. If you scroll, the islands move a certain way depending on whether you scroll up or down. To me, it seems there is a very large floating, stone building (that we haven't seen in the trailers) behind Link. To see it, slowly scroll down half way and you should see it in the top right of your screen (I'm seeing this on my phone, might be different on desktop like I wrote).
Was it this?
building.png
 
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