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Pre-Release The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom Pre-Release Discussion Thread

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@Nickle, I really enjoyed reading your extensive analysis. Thanks for posting it. I share your puzzlement at the central changes that will distinguish the overworld in BOTW 2. I hadn't previously considered the Sky Islands may not be a massive portion of the game. I've also been kinda taking it for granted that the time travel/past version of Hyrule theory could be true...but ...I hadn't considered when and how this would happen in the game.

I guess my vague conception of that the game could be like was some mix of:

  • Zelda and Link get separated when the castle ascends
  • Zelda explores the caves (possibly player-controlled)
  • Link explores the sky of the ancient past or dresses like he's doing that
  • Maybe Link explores the surface world but...maybe it's the ancient past too
  • The overworld we're seeing may be a feint of some kind
So in this sense the drastic change could potentially happen before the player plays the game. I dunno. Maybe Link goes back in time and he's communicating with Zelda by using a Hyrule time travel walkie-talkie like in Frequency. Just late night ramblings here though.

I definitely share your conception that two full and entirely explorable versions of surface Hyrule feels a little pipe dream-y and that with brand new areas like the Sky Islands in the mix it's less likely they've been able to make two full and distinct Hyrules to explore.

I still think Hyrule being so similar in the trailer may be a misdirect but that may just be my eagerness for content that feels totally new. We haven't seen a fully new 3D Zelda game world introduced since 2014 (when BOTW Hyrule was revealed), so I'm just excited to see what newness sets this apart (hopefully loads).
 
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@Nickle, I really enjoyed reading your extensive analysis. Thanks for posting it. I share your puzzlement at the central changes that will distinguish the overworld in BOTW 2. I hadn't previously considered the Sky Islands may not be a massive portion of the game. I've also been kinda taking it for granted that the time travel/past version of Hyrule theory could be true...but ...I hadn't considered when and how this would happen in the game.

I guess my vague conception of that the game could be like was some mix of:

    • Zelda and Link get separated when the castle ascends
    • Zelda explores the caves (possibly player-controlled)
    • Link explores the sky of the ancient past or dresses like he's doing that
    • Maybe Link explores the surface world but...maybe it's the ancient past too
    • The overworld we're seeing may be a feint of some kind
  • So in this sense the drastic change could potentially happen before the player plays the game. I dunno. Maybe Link goes back in time and he's communicating with Zelda by using a Hyrule time travel walkie-talkie like in Frequency. Just late night ramblings here though.

    I definitely share your conception that two full and entirely explorable versions of surface Hyrule feels a little pipe dream-y and that with brand new areas like the Sky Islands in the mix it's less likely they've been able to make two full and distinct Hyrules to explore.

    I still think Hyrule being so similar in the trailer may be a misdirect but that may just be my eagerness for content that feels totally new. We haven't seen a fully new 3D Zelda game world introduced since 2014 (when BOTW Hyrule was revealed), so I'm just excited to see what newness sets this apart (hopefully loads).

A really popular theory is that the footage of the Sky Islands in the second trailer takes place 10000 years ago, but some Zelda Youtubers have analyzed the footage, and found that in this picture, there is a few windmills in the canyon that is in the exact same place as it was in BotW (This is around the canyon where you play Goron Golf, for reference). Additionally, the landscape matches the BotW landscape almost perfectly, minus the Shiekah architecture. You would think that the landscape would be a bit different if it was really 10k years ago.

On the other hand, the music in both trailers have the those bits where they start playing in reverse, and we also know that the Italian voice actor for Daruk voiced one of his ancestors. So I still think there's a good chance we see some sort of time travel. Perhaps the world starts out relatively unchanged, but then you travel back into the past and do something that drastically alters the future. It wouldn't make much logical sense, but it could be an interesting enough gameplay mechanic for Nintendo to want to pursue it.

I've always wanted a playable Zelda, but I feel like Nintendo purposefully threw her into deep dark pit to indicate to fans that she wont be playable. Would love to be proven wrong.

You are definitely not alone in thinking that the second trailer could be a misdirect/feint, because nothing in the trailer made me think "yep, this is why the game is taking so long to make". There just has to be something that the devs don't want to show us yet.
 
Thinking and speculating about this game continuously brings me back to Gravity Rush 2. If there's space exploration in BotW2, it could work if the traversal options was something akin to Lunar Mode in Gravity Rush 2, meaning that Link can wall jump, make huge gravity-defying jumps, and shoot forwards like a rocket.

The only problem would be whether to not the game would have an oxygen meter, I think it would be a big hindrance if the world worked like Metroid Prime 2, with some "safe zones", otherwise you get drained. Maybe the hand powers will allow him to breathe in space?

I'm wondering how the world design of BotW 2 is going to change from the first game, gameplay wise.

BotW was based around having total freedom in navigation, allowing you to get to any place from any direction. The world had very few hazards or bottomless pits, you can get to basically any place in the game by paragliding or climbing. Exploration-wise, a big part of the game was wandering from one glowing point of interest to the next, taking light detours along the way to explore all the little areas. There is rarely any big chunks of content, you'll normally be done with each piece of content within a few minutes.

In BotW 2, we can see that Shiekah Towers and Shrines are completely gone. These were a significant chunk of the content in the game, and were normally placed near the most interesting areas in the game. These were key objects for guiding your eye towards different areas, as they were designed to be seen from a wide variety of angles and are clearly visible all the way across the map. With the removal of them (and the Divine Beasts), there's now much fewer points of interest. Even in the footage of the ground from the second trailer, we only see a few notable changes, such as the Deku Tree being gone or Death Mountain not being filled with lava. Apart from a few stone ruins on the ground and different placements of monster camps, the vast majority of the map looks the same so far, and would need some drastic changes to become interesting to explore again.

So how would these drastic changes happen? In Ocarina of Time, A Link Between Worlds, and Link to the Past you unlock a new world after beating 3 dungeons. This is easy because the games are linear, and every player will be in the same spot once they get the chance to access the new world. But imagine having something like this in BotW. BotW has no midpoint, the only points at which every players are on the same point are the very beginning of the game, the point at which you get the Paraglider, and when you face Ganon. It would simply be impossible for there to be a point at which the world changes shifts drastically, unless the developers were willing to have a before and after version of every single part of the game (which would be a huge waste of developer time for a world so big).

It is possible that the new game is really just going to be a retreading of the old map with a few new areas and scenarios. But considering that it's taken the devs 5-6 years to develop this, I have to imagine they have something major about the overworld that they haven't shown us yet, something much bigger then sky islands, an expansive underground, or underwater exploration. While I'm not quite sure what that change could be, I do know that the design of the game will have to be different then BotW 1 to accommodate that change.

I think the Sky Islands give us a hint at a possible new direction for the sequel. Instead of 1 large island in the sky, it's a bunch of different sized islands with large amounts of space between them. To navigate the sky islands, you often won't be able to brute force a straight path to your destination by climbing or gliding. Instead, you'll have to carefully glide from island to island, making sure to watch your distance and stamina to reach each island. If you are on an island that is lower then the one you are trying to reach, you'll have to figure out a way to get higher, possibly by using the new wall merging mechanic that shoots you upward. There are now essentially bottomless pits in the overworld, which wasn't often present in the first game (It is possible that you can fall from the sky islands all the way to the ground, but it would be really annoying to fall for 30 seconds just because you accidentally fall off an island. Also, the cloud barrier from from Skyward Sword is shown in BotW when the Dragons rise into a portal in the sky.) Overall, the navigation will be much more linear, but will require a lot more thought.

But what destination are you trying to get to get to when on the sky islands? While these screenshots only show a limited view, there doesn't appear to be anything noticeable like a Shiekah Shrine or a unique landmark...

ofq5yk0yrg571.jpg


lljaagdyrg571.jpg


tweeten-1623778027801.jpg


...except for the giant tower on the right side of the last image. While this could be many different things, I'm thinking that it's a dungeon. It doesn't look like something you are supposed to climb. BotW had basically no explorable buildings (except for Hyrule Castle, which had several obvious entrances), so it's especially notable that the devs chose to show this building, knowing that most fans are hungry for more classic dungeons.

---------------------------------------

On a separate but related note, there's a reason I talk about the sky islands as if it's all 1 area. Back when the second trailer came out last year, I did a little analysis of the sky islands to get a better idea of the layout. I found that the trailer only showed 2 areas which are likely pretty close to each other. It's a little scuffed, so just ask me if you don't understand it.

MGgYhvd.jpeg


Some people think that the Sky Islands are going to be a major part of the game, but unless there are a lot of new sky areas that we can't see, it's probably a relatively small area that you could fully explore in just a few hours.

---------------------------------------

Because of the more linear design of the Sky Islands and the presence of a possible dungeon, I'm thinking that BotW 2 is going to consist of areas that are centered around completing a main goal, which is to explore each region to find the dungeon (or find access to the dungeon). This doesn't mean that there won't be tons of side content and objectives to complete within these areas, it just means that side content and mini dungeons won't be the primary focus of the game like it was with BotW. One of these areas is the sky islands, while another area could be underground, the area where the Deku Tree was, or the crater of Death Mountain. These are all relatively closed off areas, so they fit with my idea relatively well.

The overall goal of the game could be to re-forge the Master Sword and kill Ganondorf, and the way you re-forge the sword is to get a special Mcguffin from each dungeon. If there is some sort of huge change that happens to the overworld (or an alternate world gets unlocked), perhaps it'll happen after you complete the first few dungeons. Maybe you restore the sword in the first 3 dungeons, which gives it the ability to make you travel back through time. And since you can't kill Ganondorf without the Master Sword (Calamity Ganon could only be destroyed by other weapons because it wasn't the real Ganon), so perhaps you won't be able to reach the final boss as soon as you leave the tutorial area. This works with a design philosophy that is based less on pure freedom and more on structure and progression.

Of course, I could be wrong about literally all of this, but that's part of the fun of speculating. I am still perplexed that the overworld seems to look almost entirely unchanged from the first game apart from a few relatively minor changes, but I hope there is some big twist that Nintendo is hiding from us.

Great post, I'm glad you put in the effort.

I've also been thinking about whether or not the game will have "go to final boss after the tutorial" again. You make a good point that for story reasons, Ganondorf won't be able to be killed with a weapon other than the master sword. I certainly think the game's "main dungeons" will center around remaking the master sword.

So this will be a game like BotW, structurally, with the exception that the "main dungeons" are mandatory.
 
Thinking and speculating about this game continuously brings me back to Gravity Rush 2. If there's space exploration in BotW2, it could work if the traversal options was something akin to Lunar Mode in Gravity Rush 2, meaning that Link can wall jump, make huge gravity-defying jumps, and shoot forwards like a rocket.

The only problem would be whether to not the game would have an oxygen meter, I think it would be a big hindrance if the world worked like Metroid Prime 2, with some "safe zones", otherwise you get drained. Maybe the hand powers will allow him to breathe in space?



Great post, I'm glad you put in the effort.

I've also been thinking about whether or not the game will have "go to final boss after the tutorial" again. You make a good point that for story reasons, Ganondorf won't be able to be killed with a weapon other than the master sword. I certainly think the game's "main dungeons" will center around remaking the master sword.

So this will be a game like BotW, structurally, with the exception that the "main dungeons" are mandatory.
I'd add that I doubt the final boss fight will actually be in Hyrule Castle. BOTW and AoC had boss fights in the Throne Room in the blights and calamity ganon respectively. We obviously fought Sheikak Ganon at the bottom of the castle in both of those games. A final boss fight in Hyrule Castle would feel too similar. We might have to go through some kind of portal in the castle to fight Ganondorf (maybe we fight him in the sky, then through the air while falling to Hyrule field, then we fight him on hyrule field, then we phase through the ground, and the final fight is in an underground chamber), like what was done at the end of SS.
 
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There just has to be something that the devs don't want to show us yet.

Considering they've cited this as the reason for hiding the subtitle, and the subtitles have traditionally been tightly coupled to gameplay, there's no doubt in my mind about this.

I'd bet all the deep analysis people are doing of the landscape in trailers/screenshots is going to feel pretty silly in retrospect.
 
Off the top of my head, there's five things they've used from concept art/ideas.

1. Motorbike

sdLiJK4.png


2. Short hair Zelda

NHSuXIK.png


3. Arm powers
4. Broken Master Sword

7ZQxW4t.png


5. Floating islands

O1rCjLr.png


The point has been made before that they're using concept stuff - I really don't think that it's a stretch to consider that they might use the invasion idea. Maybe not for space exploration per se, but for a big UFO to sort of fill in the same function that the dragons filled in BotW.

Speaking on a personal note, I would love for this dungeon idea to be used. Sort of like a more elaborate Vah Medoh.

8wmkjD8.png
 
it's time

AAMINISH_5F00_610.jpg
Well we ARE noticibly going to another realm in the sky 👀. Sooo:

Legend of the Picori said:
A long, long time ago...

when the world was on the verge of being swallowed by shadow...

The tiny Picori appeared from the sky, bringing the hero of men a sword and a golden light.

With wisdom and courage, the hero drove out the darkness.

When peace had been restored, the people enshrined that blade with care.


TMCvsSS.png
 
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Anyone read that part in one of the patents where we will be able to almost instantly reach the surface world from underground caves with that phase mechanic? And we will also have to go underground to enter locked buildings and probably dungeon rooms.

"Therefore, for example, the passing-through movement allows the player character to quickly escape from an underground cave or quickly move onto a roof from the inside of a building. Moreover, for example, when there is a cave beneath a building where the player character cannot enter because the entrance door is locked, the passing-through movement allows the player character to enter the building from the cave. Thus, the passing-through movement offers unprecedented moving methods, thereby enhancing strategic characteristics of the game."

This paragraph alone is pretty exciting. But there is another paragraph which begs some questions.

"In the exemplary embodiment, the player character performs the passing-through movement by using the movement item. In another embodiment, use of a specific item such as the movement item may not necessarily be a condition for the passing-through movement. That is, in the another embodiment, the player character may be able to perform the passing-through movement regardless of whether or not the player character has the specific item."

So we can phase through the ground with another item/without the arm?
 
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There for sure is Minish Cap connections to be found, both with the references to people from the sky, as well as the eye symbol both on the new enemy and on Link's shield being similar to Vaati's eye. Also, Minish Cap was directed by Fujibayashi, who's supposedly in the chair for BotW2. Maybe there's a connection there too.

Anyone read that part in one of the patents where we will be able to almost instantly reach the surface world from underground caves with that phase mechanic? And we will also have to go underground to enter locked buildings and probably dungeon rooms.

"Therefore, for example, the passing-through movement allows the player character to quickly escape from an underground cave or quickly move onto a roof from the inside of a building. Moreover, for example, when there is a cave beneath a building where the player character cannot enter because the entrance door is locked, the passing-through movement allows the player character to enter the building from the cave. Thus, the passing-through movement offers unprecedented moving methods, thereby enhancing strategic characteristics of the game."

This paragraph alone is pretty exciting. But there is another paragraph which begs some questions.

"In the exemplary embodiment, the player character performs the passing-through movement by using the movement item. In another embodiment, use of a specific item such as the movement item may not necessarily be a condition for the passing-through movement. That is, in the another embodiment, the player character may be able to perform the passing-through movement regardless of whether or not the player character has the specific item."

So we can phase through the ground with another item/without the arm?

I think that the phasing will be used to reach both underground -> overworld, as well as overworld -> sky. But with loading times in between, I guess.

Regardless, I can't wait to see what speed runners will do with the ability.
 
Well we ARE noticibly going to another realm in the sky 👀. Sooo:
What would be even more mindblowing is discovering that water drop also minifies the player and all the sky scenes that we saw in the trailers are actually on picori proportion. That's why we can't see the islands on og BOTW....XD
 
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Is it weird that with all the speculation about potential story, gameplay mechanics and the (expanded) overworld, the thing I am most interested about is the soundtrack they are going to use in the release trailer? The one they used for BotW's January 2017 trailer is one of the most memorable ones ever to me, and it will be interesting to see if they can recreate that moment.
 
Is it weird that with all the speculation about potential story, gameplay mechanics and the (expanded) overworld, the thing I am most interested about is the soundtrack they are going to use in the release trailer? The one they used for BotW's January 2017 trailer is one of the most memorable ones ever to me, and it will be interesting to see if they can recreate that moment.

I sometimes listen to Second Narrator remixes and close my eyes and I try to imagine a BotW2 trailer in my head.

 
There for sure is Minish Cap connections to be found, both with the references to people from the sky, as well as the eye symbol both on the new enemy and on Link's shield being similar to Vaati's eye. Also, Minish Cap was directed by Fujibayashi, who's supposedly in the chair for BotW2. Maybe there's a connection there too.



I think that the phasing will be used to reach both underground -> overworld, as well as overworld -> sky. But with loading times in between, I guess.

Regardless, I can't wait to see what speed runners will do with the ability.
Reg Switch = Loading Screen
New Switch = No Loading Screen

The first ever Nintendo riot.
 
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Is it weird that with all the speculation about potential story, gameplay mechanics and the (expanded) overworld, the thing I am most interested about is the soundtrack they are going to use in the release trailer? The one they used for BotW's January 2017 trailer is one of the most memorable ones ever to me, and it will be interesting to see if they can recreate that moment.
You know what I'm interested in:
What's the title screen gonna be?

I want less like this:
8NHn420_d.webp


And more like this:
GWytEFs_d.webp


please.
 
I don’t care about a trailer more than the game. What I do care about is the title screen. That boring title screen might be the worst in Zelda history. I can’t believe that’s what Nintendo came up with.
 
I sometimes listen to Second Narrator remixes and close my eyes and I try to imagine a BotW2 trailer in my head.


Thanks for introducing me to this channel, great stuff!

You know what I'm interested in:
What's the title screen gonna be?

I want less like this:
8NHn420_d.webp


And more like this:
GWytEFs_d.webp


please.
Absolutely, the little things are important as well.
 
Weird way to twist my words, but okay.
You said your more interested in the soundtrack for a trailer. Yeah that’s not really interesting to me. I don’t find a soundtrack for a trailer more interesting than discussing the game itself. The mechanics, the gameplay, the soundtrack for the game, the story, the amazing world they create for us to explore is more interesting than the soundtrack for a trailer.
 
You said your more interested in the soundtrack for a trailer. Yeah that’s not really interesting to me. I don’t find a soundtrack for a trailer more interesting than discussing the game itself. The mechanics, the gameplay, the soundtrack for the game, the story, the amazing world they create for us to explore is more interesting than the soundtrack for a trailer.
Oh, I am interested in discussing all of that once the game is out and I had the chance to play it. For now, or at least until we get some new footage, there is only so much to discuss, imo. But that's fair.

Also, apologies for my passive-aggressive remark. It is not like me and your comment certainly did not warrant me reacting like that.
 
Is it weird that with all the speculation about potential story, gameplay mechanics and the (expanded) overworld, the thing I am most interested about is the soundtrack they are going to use in the release trailer? The one they used for BotW's January 2017 trailer is one of the most memorable ones ever to me, and it will be interesting to see if they can recreate that moment.
I dont like the last trailer emusic for 2, so i don thave high hopes for the final one, but i AM interested what additions to the soundtrack will happen. I asume some more "memorable" themes as people wanted, but also addition of new instruments.
You know what I'm interested in:
What's the title screen gonna be?

I want less like this:
8NHn420_d.webp


And more like this:
GWytEFs_d.webp


please.
I totally get why it wasnt the second one (youre already that much looking at the world, and they wanted the effect of "first view" after exiting the cave. And they liked the artwork they had. but yeah... it was a weak screen.
 
I dont like the last trailer emusic for 2, so i don thave high hopes for the final one, but i AM interested what additions to the soundtrack will happen. I asume some more "memorable" themes as people wanted, but also addition of new instruments.
Yeah, even as someone who really likes the more subdued soundtrack of BotW, I still hope we get some more tracks that more closely resemble what you would typically expect from classic Zelda soundtracks.

I guess it will be interesting to see how they differentiate the OST for the sky realm from the "regular" overworld as well as potential underground/sea/underwater maps. Subtle changes in instrumentation could help with that a great deal.
 
What would be even more mindblowing is discovering that water drop also minifies the player and all the sky scenes that we saw in the trailers are actually on picori proportion. That's why we can't see the islands on og BOTW....XD
If the Minish are in, it would probably indeed be something like that :p or more specifically that the new mechanic takes Link to their realm, basically serving as a portable Minish Door. Until insert random plot reason here and the barrier between the worlds breaks and the islands are noticeable from the surface.
 
Yeah, even as someone who really likes the more subdued soundtrack of BotW, I still hope we get some more tracks that more closely resemble what you would typically expect from classic Zelda soundtracks.

I guess it will be interesting to see how they differentiate the OST for the sky realm from the "regular" overworld as well as potential underground/sea/underwater maps. Subtle changes in instrumentation could help with that a great deal.
I understand their reasoning for not using music all the time. Though I think they missed the opportunity of creating a classic song for the area of the map called Hyrule Field.
 
I understand their reasoning for not using music all the time. Though I think they missed the opportunity of creating a classic song for the area of the map called Hyrule Field.

Or give us the option through a 'radio rune'.
 
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I only want the dungeon music back. The typical overworld themes from games past would be so, so grating when on loop for hours. I already wasn't keen on Hyrule Castle for that reason.

What I would like is a more traditional credits thing as well. You know. Panning through the world. Showing the characters.
 
Breath of the Wild is literally named after the sound of nature, so it made sense for the soundtrack to be subdued. The Zelda team rarely uses the same gimmicks between titles, so I can imagine that they'll go for a new approach for the music with the sequel in order to differentiate it. I doubt the overworld music will constantly play like it does in classic Zelda, but it could be more pronounced when it does play.

Speaking of music, I'm wondering if there's going to be an instrument in this game. While I would enjoy having one as a throwback to older Zeldas, I don't think there's much of a reason for them these days. We don't need songs in order to fast travel, the map does that much better. Stuff like the Command Melody from Wind Waker or the Elegy of Emptiness were really annoying, since you had to use them several times in a row, these could easily have just been unique items. Then there are the songs that just act as glorified keys, which again could just be unique items.
 
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What I would like is a more traditional credits thing as well. You know. Panning through the world. Showing the characters.
Is it just me or do most of Nintendo's games feature a really similar slideshow credits sequence?
I've wondered for years if there's a reason for that.
 
so it doesn't overshadow the music, because Nintendo credits scenes have some of the best music in the games
Okay but see, Mario 64 is a great example of a credits sequence that goes above and beyond a jpeg slideshow that ends up complimenting the fantastic credits music, though. Something like that would have been wonderful for BotW or Xenoblade (though now that I think about it I'm sure load times are a part of the issue)
 
Okay but see, Mario 64 is a great example of a credits sequence that goes above and beyond a jpeg slideshow that ends up complimenting the fantastic credits music, though. Something like that would have been wonderful for BotW or Xenoblade (though now that I think about it I'm sure load times are a part of the issue)

Yeah, Mario 64, Ocarina and Majora all have what I'd like. All were on a system that had almost no load times.
Luckily FMV exists and can solve that issue.
I know, I know, cart capacity costs...
But the slideshow in Breath of the Wild's credits is already FMV, right?
 
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Skyward Sword's title screen was just the logo on a cloudy background, but it at least still had some life to it with the wind blowing.
 
Regarding music, BotW had the piano as a key instrument. I think the key instrument for BotW2 is gonna be the wind flute we heard playing Zelda's lullaby at the end of teaser 2.
I would add that the last scene in the last trailer (where we hear Zelda's lullaby) seems like a good title screen (but not the only one).
 
Regarding music, BotW had the piano as a key instrument. I think the key instrument for BotW2 is gonna be the wind flute we heard playing Zelda's lullaby at the end of teaser 2.
Resident Zelda music nerd here! That instrument is the erhu, a single stringed violin. It's featured in previous Zelda games, mostly signifying dragons (SS, BOTW) because of the instrument's Chinese roots. It's also prominent in BOTW's Gerudo, which are a combination of Arab and Buddhist aesthetics.

There's still plenty of piano in the 2021 teaser. I'm also interested in the reverse choir things they're doing - BOTW has some hardcore music nerdery in it, so curious how far they take the dissonance route here.
I’m getting so amped. We could possibly getting a demo of this game finally being played next month. I just want to see everything
Optimistic Dark Cloud is quite the sight ;). Personally I've been hoping since E3 2019 and I'm a little burned out, but I'm open to being surprised.
 
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